14. January 2021, 01:37:39

#80

prengleQuote

voicing my concerns without going ham:

• are any of the modders whose work is being included with this release being reimbursed with anything other than a steam key and a mention in the credits? i may be the odd one out but i find this skeevy considering that this is a paid release from a professional publisher - after a certain point, "thank u for ur support :3" starts to look a little flimsy. nightdive has already begun to acquire a reputation in some circles for half-baked remasters (blood fresh supply was mostly atari's fault, but still) and empty promises (it's been four and a half years since the ss1 remake kickstarter)... if the modders are ok with it then sure, but that doesn't make nightdive look much better 
• if the graphics mods are optional (and nightdive is making their own model replacement mod) then cool, but the scp (ss2 community patch) does make several gameplay changes. even if this is an integral part of ss2ee and it can't be disabled, i feel like these changes should be highlighted somewhere
• please continue to make the original non-kex version of ss2 available alongside the ss2ee, even if it's included as a bonus or something. i would love to see the original olddark release made easily available as well, and there are a fair number of people who would probably enjoy seeing it too
• what "source code" is actually being released - the original olddark release by looking glass and irrational, nightdive's reverse-engineered code, or the source code for this kex-based release? who exactly owns the rights to the dark engine itself?

i still haven't forgotten the freely available system shock portable being taken down so that nightdive's first version of ss1ee could be sold online with virtually the same features. the source code release softened the blow, but that was years afterward...


Quote by Hikari:

For all your talent Zylon. You are an incredibly smug bastard that seems to revel in it.

i cannot imagine a world without zylon snidely correcting people in ttlg-adjacent threads. it just wouldn't be the same.

Acknowledged by: RoSoDude

14. January 2021, 02:06:27

#81

sarge945Quote

As a VR Developer, I have some questions about the VR work we have seen so far (the twitter video):

• In the video, the wrench speed seems to be tied to the controller movement. Is there anything in place to prevent the "swing wildly and at high speed to instakill everything" gameplay we see so frequently in VR games, due to controllers being nearly weightless and easy to swing around? Are you taking the Skyrim VR approach of "you can swing it as much as you want, but it will only do actual damage based on it's normal attack time" approach, or is there some other system you are using? The game is already heavily focused around melee weapons such as the wrench and the shard, and if players can swing them wildly without consequences, expect all the difficulty to go down the toilet, even on impossible. How are you handling things like the Smasher O/S Upgrade, as the player is not restricted to certain attack animations in VR. Will an overhead swing without the O/S upgrade simply do less damage?
• What considerations (if any) are being made for the interface? In the video it's displaying on a screen and using the default interface, however these sorts of interfaces do not port to VR well, either feeling like they are inside your eyes because of how close they are (very uncomfortable), or being obtrusive to the gameplay by constantly being in peripheral vision and fuzzy or difficult to see. Is there a new VR focused design incoming?
• How are things like inventory interactions being handled? Are we simply going to get a mouse cursor controlled via a laser pointer (or some equivalent), or is work being done to make the UI more VR friendly?
• Are we going to see any differences in mechanics in VR, such as a more in-depth weapon reloading system?
• Are any models being modified/updated to work properly in VR? The most important modifications here are models which do not have back sides. Many games have weapon models with holes in them on the "opposite side" to what the camera can see. I do not know if this is an issue in System Shock 2, but if it is, it will be obvious in VR to find these sorts of faults, as objects can be seen from many different angles.
• How are things like frobbing being handled? Lets say for example I want to charge all the items in my inventory at a charging station. Game game currently has no animations for frobbing. Would I simply touch the device to use it, or will there be some sort of handle/button/apparatus for me to use the machine?
• How are you going to handle things like mantling? This one is particularly difficult as it can be very hard to move the player without making them sick, especially in the vertical dimension.
• Speaking of movement, are you looking to implement smooth locomotion, teleporting, or some other sort of system? If you are going with smooth locolotion, do you have smoothing and other things implemented to prevent motion sickness? In the original game, the player falls over when they die, this is EXTREMELY likely to cause motion sickness. Will the camera simply hover in the air instead? (which is similar to other games like HL:Alyx)

Obviously we haven't seen much gameplay yet, and I am guessing it's nowhere near ready for release, but I am particularly skeptical of projects like this because of how often VR is tacked onto existing games with no consideration, and it is often a horrendously bad experience. Redesigning core game systems from the ground up for VR is going to take time, and I really hope NightDive has the resources to do it justice. Especially for a game like System Shock 2 where people like to keep it *mostly* authentic, because it's well respected as a game outright. Changing too many of the systems in VR might turn away people who are looking for "good old System Shock 2, but in VR", even if that's an impossible idea.

14. January 2021, 03:03:35

#82

KolyaQuote

Quote by prengle:

are any of the modders whose work is being included with this release being reimbursed with anything other than a steam key and a mention in the credits? i may be the odd one out but i find this skeevy considering that this is a paid release from a professional publisher

I'm less surprised with NightDive swooping in to gather the free work from this community for their next game release, than with how happily modders give away their work of passion to be sold. It's their decision of course, although I can't imagine self-exploitation was the goal when they started. 

14. January 2021, 03:10:08

#83

📱 HikariQuote

Ok you actually have a point there.

14. January 2021, 09:21:31

#84

endwarsQuote

I feel like you guys are on the wrong track.

Modders offer their work freely to NightDive, because their work was free for all to begin with. At least this way, it makes its way to the official release and improves the base game. An improved version game will be released with or without these mods, but without it, it just wont be as good.

Could NightDive offer more than just a SS2 key to these modders? Sure, but they are not obligated to do so. It is not like they are just grabbing their work without asking for permission first and I fully expect those who contributed will make it into the credits.

Additionally, as far as I know SS2EE is going to be free to SS2 owners anyway. People who are going to buy SS2 now would have had to pay the same amount anyway. From my point of view, it changes nothing.