15. January 2021, 09:23:43

#90

sarge945Quote

I don't think "it was free to begin with" is really a fair argument.

There are plenty of completely valid reasons why someone, especially a mod author, might want to avoid having their mod included, even if their mod is free anyway (and it would be good exposure). Some of them are likely against the idea on the whole, either because they don't like NightDive and don't want "a greedy corporation profiting off the passionate work of others", or because they feel like having a set of pre-included mods would damage the community of the game, because they may take attention away from similar mods, simply by virtue of them being preinstalled. I'm also sure there are some people who won't even know that mods are enabled.

Imagine an alternate universe where Rebirth is included for free in the game, and enabled by default. This is likely to result in a number of people thinking "the game has funny looking models", thinking it's a part of the base game. Even people who like Rebirth aren't being served either - if all they have used is the built-in mods, they may not even know about any potential alternatives, were they to be released. Simply by virtue of having to look externally, this could create a caste system of mods. I think the general attitude of most modders is that they are doing this for passion - but also because they want to be a part of the community around the game, building off each other, and working towards common goals. Having a pre-accepted list of mods sort of undermines that to a degree.

If the entire project ends up itself being part of the community, being largely open-source and the main thing you're paying for is the assets (think of a project like GZDoom), I think the whole "included mods" thing will be an easier pill to swallow for some people.

Acknowledged by: RoSoDude

15. January 2021, 12:36:42

#91

voodoo47Quote

I see it like this, we allow NDS to use our stuff (mods/fixes), they allow us to use their stuff (SS2 source code release, SS2EE exclusive resources).

win-win?

Acknowledged by: Hardkern

15. January 2021, 13:40:49

#92

endwarsQuote

sarge945
You managed to miss my point entirely. What are you even talking about?

If a mod author don't want their mods included, they simply wouldn't give their permission to be included in the game. It is not like anyone is forcing them.

Your second argument is invalid as well. Models from the original game look funny to begin with, Rebirth models looking funny is irrelevant. Not to mention, they will not be included in this release as they are, which was confirmed pages ago. Mods being included would not in any way cause people to not seek out other mods, people who were going to mod this game will seek out mods and mod the game anyway and people who don't care about mods, couldn't be bothered regardless.

Additionally, SS2EE will not replace the original SS2 in your library. At least that wasn't the case with SS1. It is not like original will somehow disappear. Wanting this to be without any sort of mods/improvements/enhancements to graphics is unreasonable.

There is already a caste system of mods, there are good mods who are of high quality and faithful to the original, and there are bad mods, low quality and not resembling the original, at least not as much as it should. Good mods for SS2 come recommended, they are mostly extremely faithful to the original and usually there are no proper alternatives.

I am against Rebirth being included as is, but not because any of the reason you have listed, I am against it because it is of low quality and not in any way faithful to the original, it is bad and it makes SS2 look bad.

Don't misunderstand this though, it doesn't need to look exactly like the original to be faithful. Frankly original models are so low quality, they look melted. It only needed to capture the original intent of the devs, instead of hybrids looking like dracula and midwife looking like a.... robo stripper?

15. January 2021, 17:25:15

#93

ZylonBaneQuote

Quote by endwars:

I am against Rebirth being included as is, but not because any of the reason you have listed, I am against it because it is of low quality and not in any way faithful to the original, it is bad and it makes SS2 look bad.

Right, Rebirth was so "low quality" that it landed the creator a job at Arkane.

Rebirth is in fact very high quality. It has possibly the most detailed AI models ever created for the Dark Engine, with professional-quality texturing. The problem with Rebirth is that it's not sufficiently faithful to the original models. It's a high-quality, low-authenticity mod.

15. January 2021, 17:58:18

#94

endwarsQuote

ZylonBane
Context, ZylonBane. You do realize that's not what I meant, right?

When I say quality mod, I don't mean model quality. Most detailed AI models ever created for the Dark Engine or not, they do not fit SS2. So my intent was not to say his work is shoddy, it was to say it is not authentic enough to fit into SS2EE.