11. February 2016, 17:39:01

#10

ZylonBaneQuote

Quote by antimatter_16:

Retro-mode - unfiltered 32x32 pixel terrain textures and objects replaced with 3d sprites
In SS2 there's a "Gamepig" handheld console the character can find along with different game cartridges to play mini games. Reimplement this!

SS1's wall textures are actually 128x128, same as SS2's. And SS1 already has playable mini games that you collect. That's why SS2 has them.


Quote by Hikari:

Remove the Inventory Tetris

Uhh, SS1 had no inventory Tetris. This thread is about the SS1 remake, remember?

While we all can agree System Shock 2's graphics did not age well

We agree to no such thing. Due to SS2's clean, stylized art style, its graphics have aged quite well.

11. February 2016, 18:31:28

#11

OlfredQuote

Many things have already been said so I don't want to just repeat it. Therefore I only elaborate on my biggest concern right now.
As Marvin already stated, simply taking the original geometry and just blend some effects on it just doesn't cut it.
The screenshots provided look more like the source has been released and fans added some cool things to the original game, not like a remake.

A remake which is developed should look like a game which is on par with other releases of the current time. What we see right now looks like a game from 15 years ago.
The general level layout should stay intact and close to the original, but the looks of the interior should match up to todays standards. Some expansions and alterations are good and wanted if it really adds to the whole experience. What comes to mind is to expand the layout so you really match the outer "casing" of the space station. Make the outer rooms follow the curvature an maybe add some windows here and there.
Notable games are Black Mesa (Half-Life remake) where everything got a modern touch but you still felt right at home. Also the Resident Evil remake does a nice transition between reimagining and expanding the old game. Although I have to admit that too many changes to the original riddles and such have been made to be a faithful remake.

Now it comes down to Kickstarter.
When it comes down to stretch goals you should obviously have the first goal to be the basic game. Followed by improvements to the original concept. Expanded skill system, expanded weapon system (customisation etc.), avatar creation, multiplayer coop support, and so on. Followed by small expansions to the world like adding an outside mission or something like that.
For the initial launch this should be it.
If all the goals have been reached (or are close to be so) make some announcement that due to the big interest in the project you will be adding new stretch goals. These could be a new level added to the station, even bigger expansions to skill and weapon systems, more customisation for the avatar, you get the idea.
When you go with adding a level there should be smaller follow up goals to the new level, like, new monsters, new weapons etc. follow up by something big unrelated to the level as a means people look forward to.

Even if there is already a big list of stretch goals you, should go with only expanding the list as you are nearing the end.
This way people will see a certain mark to reach and are more likely to spend money on it to reach "the full game" opposed to seeing an unreachable goal and just shy away. Additionally there won't be people who will be upset because goal number 35 which they really looked forwards to hasn't been reached. Also you might get extra PR because gaming sites will report that due to high demand new stretch goals will be added.

Talking about rewards for backing. I really don't like that the rewards for backing to get a copy of the game is exactly as high as the estimated retail price once the game is released. There is really nothing in it for me other than the possibility to have wasted my money.
Whenever I am intrested in something at Kickstarter and they do it like this, I'll just pass the backing. It's much better for me to just wait for the release of the game and check if it's just a bunch of garbage or actually a decent game. Then I can still buy it for the same price as if I would have it backed.
What I would like to see as steps for getting the game is a digital copy for a lower price than the estimated release price and a physical copy which is at or slightly lower as the retail price. But it should have something nice about it you only get at Kickstarter. Like a special steelbook casing, some art cards and a key chain or something. Just add some small fancy goodies to it.

After that just add some more goodies, like the hacker t-shirt, a shodan poster etc. and at higher "prices" the same stuff but signed.

When it comes down to digital goodies, please only add cosmetic stuff and nothing like "secret level/weapon/story/whatever" which adds to the game. People will flail you for it.
If you reach a goal which will expand the game and new stuff needs to be added you can also do rewards like "your name in the game" or "name a weapon/add-on/area/whatever" thing. But post a little disclaimer to it that it needs to be an appropriate name. I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Major Asshole" in System Shock.

11. February 2016, 19:14:54

#12

HikariQuote

One thing I'd kinda like in the remake is an explaination, no matter how flimsy, Beta Grove could be put way out nearly fifty light years away. On the one hand I like how System Shock Infinite did it what with it never happened until the loops started and it was originally just a transmission of shodan's codebase that took over and then reality warping.... but that'd basically be you guys canonizing a fan work. Do or not as you like but to sorta give some hint at Shock2 could have happened would be good.


More importantly I've asked around with friends that have put money in Kickstarter stuff.

The big thing here is communicate often. Weekly would be preferable but at the absolute minimum do not leave your backers in the dark. A lot of kickstarters fail and people demand refunds when communication breaks down, the thing you put money on is announced months after the initial release date, 'oh sorry we've got delays' or more often 'oh sorry we underestimated how much it cost.' This is the most important thing. You need to keep in constant honest and open communication both to show that you're working on the thing, and so that anyone that feels like things are taking too long won't feel like you just stole their money thus leading to really REALLY bad press.

This cannot be canned statements that say nothing using a lot of words. Concerns have to be addressed. Discussion must be had. If nothing else it'll serve to help keep the hype train going when inevitable delays happen. Easier to sympathize with people that are showing you what they're doing and why delays are happening rather than some faceless corp shoving someone out to make a youtube video with a canned 'we appreciate you joining us on this journey' type empty statement.

As for rewards such as posters, shirts, and so on. Personally  I would rather not do much physical merch since that's money that could go towards the game itself.


That said I would want one tier that's a delux box with color manual and some bit of shelf art be it a model of Citadel, a triop logo coaster, or something small but kinda neat. Bundles where you can gift other people copies of the game (be it steam/gog keys or physical jewel cases you can specify who they get mailed to) would also be wonderful.

If you do 'kickstarter exclusive gun/level/skin/etc' make it avalible in the level editor. So it's less 'only those anointed by us get to play with the thing' and more 'this is them getting dibs on something everyone else will get to play with themselves. That said, I'm with the guy above me in I really do not want exclusive stuff that isn't just cosmetic. It leads to hurt and angry people. You do not need the bad press.

Also, just as a thing for me. While poasters are kinda nice I honestly want something that isn't just the box art blown up to poster size. Something like Citadel with saturn in the background I'd be able to frame and hang. Then again I'm weird in that I don't want it to look like this one piece of game stuff and I'd be required to have a gaming lounge for it to look proper in, so... take it with a grain of salt.

11. February 2016, 19:15:34

#13

ZylonBaneQuote

I'm basically expecting a Citadel Station that looks as detailed as the one in Alien: Isolation. But with the 90s cyberpunk aesthetic instead of 70s industrial grunge.

11. February 2016, 19:29:32

#14

voodoo47Quote

first, I'm going to assume that we are not talking about a simple remake here (I usually call such remakes engine clones - basically importing all the original resources into some other engine, cloning the levels and recreating AI and other functionality to be as close to the original as possible). so that leaves us with a full remake, meaning taking the spirit of SS1 and creating a whole new vessel for it, one that would appeal to the next generation of gamers. those that are beyond the call of duty, anyway.

some general advice first - don't do anything that would obviously anger everyone/anyone who has played and liked the original SS1, things like regenerating health, infinite ammo boxes and anything else that is considered "COD kiddy stuff". while it might be tempting to make a game "more approachable" for the sake of being able to target a larger demographic, this usually leads to catastrophic failures - the newest Thief game would be a nice example, being a horrible, dumbed down, broken abomination for everyone who knew and liked the old Thief games, and being just a sort of ok-ish, mediocre, forgettable game for those who didn't. overall, Eidos would probably have been better off simply porting Thief1 into a new engine, and polishing the levels a bit. and this is EXACTLY what should be avoided - you need the old boys to like the remake, they are the ones who will be writing articles on the 'net and other media, and spread the glory. or shame. so don't try to please everyone, it's impossible, and you would probably end up pleasing no one.


that brings us to the more specific stuff;

keep the core mechanics intact - all that weird but enjoyable stuff, like the hacking puzzles, minigames, cyberspace, booster skates, gadgets etc. if it worked well, and people liked it, keep it in. you want to preserve the uniqueness, not erase it into blandness and genericness (wow, that's actually a word). lets not make this into a corridor rail shooter with System Shock textures. same goes for the story and quests - not much retouching is needed (and desired) here. to make it short, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

redo the levels properly - as already mentioned, slapping shiny textures on the primitive SS1 level geometry will not do. so don't be afraid to change things here - simply cloning the quite nonsensical SS1 level architecture would not be wise, the levels need to feel like a real space station, not just "rooms where monsters jump at you". this was (very) ok 20 years ago, but would be almost comical nowadays. but do keep the general aesthetics true to the original, meaning the new level should instantly be identifiable as Engineering, Grove etc.

AIs need an overhaul - again, sprites standing around doing their idle dance was fine in the nineties, but wouldn't do ok today. keep their aesthetics and abilities intact, but make them work well with the new levels.

UI/controls need a lot of work - obviously. the biggest pain of the vanilla game needs to be reworked into something more modern - something close to the inventory mode/shoot mode setup from System Shock2 would work nicely here. also, hotkeys for grenades (that frob from inventory just to kill yourself thing needs to go) and some other things. to make it short (again), if it's broken, annoying, or people disliked it, fix it, and don't listen what the hardcore purists say.

however, the inventory does not - surprisingly, SS1 inventory with its tabs and slots (and selectable infowindows on the sides) is very functional, and I wouldn't be too afraid to leave it in with only minimal adjustments. and I certainly wouldn't try to forcibly rework it into SS2 tetris style inventory.

keep the hardware requirements low - next gen graphics will not be the selling point of this game. as far as the engine is concerned, go with something stable, proven, highly modable, with decent looks and low system requirements. also with something that has linux/MAC support right out of the box. the point is, every potato needs to be able to run this.

keep it affordable - lets be honest here, if done right, the remake will certainly find its place on many harddrives, but it won't be breaking the internet Fallout4 style. making sure everyone with the above mentioned potato will be able to buy the game would be nice.

allow us to mod the game - well, obviously.

also,

Quote by ZylonBane:

I'm basically expecting a Citadel Station that looks as detailed as the one in Alien: Isolation. But with the 90s cyberpunk aesthetic instead of 70s industrial grunge.

yes.

Acknowledged by 2 members: Nameless Voice, antimatter_16