[Obsolete] SS2 Community Patch (SCP) Beta 3

[66499a8ce9808voodoo47]

it's on the streets, and yes, it's hidden pretty well. again, psst mantle.

[66499a8ce9977JDR13]

Pretty well is an understatement. I walked around that map about a dozen times now and have tried to mantle onto anything within reach. Is there some kind of invisible ledge or something?

I'm starting to wonder if it's not in my game for some reason. SCP is definitely activated in my game. I'm also using Rebirth, SHTUP, Four Hundred, and Object Fixes.

Other than the ledge where you find the BB and the truck near the noodle place, there's only a few garbage cans and pay phones that I can climb on. Wtf am I missing?

[66499a8ce9a81voodoo47]

it's not fun if I tell you directly. one last hint - you need to mantle somewhere then jump somewhere to mantle again. just mantle mantle mantle everywhere - just like you said, the streets are not that large.

[66499a8ce9b6eJDR13]

Kudos for the patch btw. There are a couple of gameplay changes in Beta3 that I don't agree with, but overall it's a job well done.

[66499a8ce9c9cZylonBane]

Name them so we can explain why you're wrong.

[66499a8ce9e0eJDR13]

That's hard to do when I'm not wrong.

I don't agree with removing the 50% cold resistance to cyborgs. The devs obviously felt that cyborgs should have a resistance to cold because...well they're cyborgs. Rather than remove that resistance because "no one else had it", perhaps you should have considered adding the same resistance to all robotic and partially robotic enemies as well. It makes sense that a cyborg wouldn't take as much damage from cold as a fully organic person/creature. What doesn't makes sense is that the devs didn't apply it to robots as well.

Also - "AIs no longer investigate sound made by psi teleport markers and psi walls." Why? If it makes a noise, then why wouldn't they want to check it out? That's assuming they're already in the area. Now if it was actually making the game spawn new enemies, then I agree with it.

[66499a8ce9f05JDR13]

I give up on the hidden area. I suspect it's on the higher ledge opposite the ledge where you find the BB, but I can't get there. I was able to get to the area directly above the grav shaft, but I couldn't go anywhere from there.

[66499a8cea018voodoo47]

nope. what's the only bigass object you can mantle on the streets?

[66499a8cea596ZylonBane]

I don't agree with removing the 50% cold resistance to cyborgs. The devs obviously felt that cyborgs should have a resistance to cold because...well they're cyborgs.

There are six creature vulnerability classes in SS2: mech, half-mech, annelid, half-annelid, swarm, and human. Humans don't have cold resistance. Mechs don't have cold resistance. Therefore it makes no logical sense that half-mechs (cyborgs) would have cold resistance.

"Fixing" this by adding cold resistance to mechs is not an option because in the vanilla game mechs are already resistant to heat, not cold: Mechs have full resistance to incendiary damage and half-mechs have half resistance. Adding mech resistance to heat AND cold would screw psi players.

"AIs no longer investigate sound made by psi teleport markers and psi walls." Why? If it makes a noise, then why wouldn't they want to check it out?

Because it makes the AIs act stupid. The sound emitted by psi walls and teleport markers isn't a one-shot, it's a continuous loop. So nearby AIs "investigating" psi walls get stuck continuously trying to walk through them.

Furthermore, the suspicious tag on sound events is generally reserved for things like gunshots, explosions, and crashes. The reason AIs were investigating psi walls and teleport markers is because the vanilla game has the sound type WEAPON_PSI on their ambient loops, meaning from the AI's perspective they "sound" like something continuously launching psi attacks. This was clearly a copy-and-paste error by Irrational, since in the file where all the psi sounds are defined, those are the only two sounds out of 62 that aren't one-shot activation/deactivation/firing sounds.

[66499a8cea928RocketMan]

[66499a8ceb147JDR13]

There are six creature vulnerability classes in SS2: mech, half-mech, annelid, half-annelid, swarm, and human. Humans don't have cold resistance. Mechs don't have cold resistance. Therefore it makes no logical sense that half-mechs (cyborgs) would have cold resistance.

"Fixing" this by adding cold resistance to mechs is not an option because in the vanilla game mechs are already resistant to heat, not cold: Mechs have full resistance to incendiary damage and half-mechs have half resistance. Adding mech resistance to heat AND cold would screw psi players.

Then I get why you can't add cold resistance to mechs, but that still doesn't validate removing it from cyborgs. Again, your only justification seems to be that you removed it because no one else had it. I'm guessing the devs didn't add it to mechs for the exact reason you stated above. They couldn't because then mechs would obviously have too many resistances. I don't think it should be removed from cyborgs because of that.

I find it odd that they chose to give mechs full resistance to incendiary damage though. It would have made more sense for them to have half resistance to both. Oh well...

Because it makes the AIs act stupid. The sound emitted by psi walls and teleport markers isn't a one-shot, it's a continuous loop. So nearby AIs "investigating" psi walls get stuck continuously trying to walk through them.

Furthermore, the suspicious tag on sound events is generally reserved for things like gunshots, explosions, and crashes. The reason AIs were investigating psi walls and teleport markers is because the vanilla game has the sound type WEAPON_PSI on their ambient loops, meaning from the AI's perspective they "sound" like something continuously launching psi attacks. This was clearly a copy-and-paste error by Irrational, since in the file where all the psi sounds are defined, those are the only two sounds out of 62 that aren't one-shot activation/deactivation/firing sounds.

Ah ok. Thanks for explaining. It makes a lot more sense now knowing that.

[66499a8ceb284JDR13]

Finally found the hidden area. I recognized it as soon as I entered. Very cool.

Is what's written on the wall supposed to a reference to the game with that name?

[66499a8ceb785ZylonBane]

Then I get why you can't add cold resistance to mechs, but that still doesn't validate removing it from cyborgs. Again, your only justification seems to be that you removed it because no one else had it.

If you think that's what the justification is, you aren't thinking very well.

Cyborgs are half-human and half-mech, and NEITHER HUMANS NOR MECHS have modified cold vulnerability. It doesn't make intuitive sense that a cross between the two would spontaneously develop a new vulnerability.

By contrast, mechs have full heat resistance, cyborgs have half heat resistance, and humans have no heat resistance. Similarly, full annelids are 4x vulnerable to anti-annelid attacks, half-annelids are 1x vulnerable, and humans are immune. So Irrational's intent is clear: Non-human vulnerability modifiers are reduced when crossed with humans.

So that's two reasons really: logic and internal consistency.

[66499a8cebb0eJDR13]

NEITHER HUMANS NOR MECHS have modified cold vulnerability.

Of course humans don't. Why should they? I think we can both agree though that mechs should have some degree of resistance to cold. The reason they don't has already been stated. 100% resistance to heat and 50% resistance to cold would be too much for any one class.

I get why you did it. I just think it would make more sense if mechs had 50% resistance to both instead of 100% to heat and no resistance whatsoever to cold. That would be even more logical would it not? Why would a cold-based attack do 100% damage to a robot?

Anyways, it's not a big deal. I just wanted to give my 2 cents. I'll reiterate that you guys have done a fantastic job overall.

[66499a8cec11bKolya]

I don't agree with removing the 50% cold resistance to cyborgs. Again, your only justification seems to be that you removed it because no one else had it.

If you think that's what the justification is, you aren't thinking very well.

Or he is going by your terse explanation of that change in the readme file: "Cyborgs no longer have 50% resistance to cold damage, unlike every other enemy in the game."

A few more explanatory words in the readme (and bit less cocky replies) would go a long way to build trust with your users and help more people enjoy the awesomeness that is SCP.
Just saying.

[66499a8cec250voodoo47]

the simplified explanation would be - the vanilla game is full of props and setups that IG were playing around with and then forgot to change or remove them. cold resistance on cyborgs is anomalous and unneeded as cyborgs are already tough as nails, so off it goes, no looking back.

[66499a8cec34eMastersnake39]

I could tell you what the room itself is a reference to. Not sure if I should say it outside of a PM though.

[66499a8cec650ZylonBane]

Or he is going by your terse explanation of that change in the readme file

Except, he said that after I'd already given him the longer explanation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLhVNtuwzQ0

[66499a8cec77aBas]

Is the CP in general and in the latest version included in SHTUP-ND?

[66499a8cec8cbZylonBane]

What.

[66499a8ceca28voodoo47]

I'm guessing he is asking whether SCP is included in SHTUP? the answer to that would be no, they are standalone mods, however they have a very symbiotic relationship and both should be loaded for the best experience.

[66499a8cecd10JDR13]

I could tell you what the room itself is a reference to. Not sure if I should say it outside of a PM though.

No need. Like I said, I recognized it as soon as I entered. I've played that game more than once. It's a classic.

I was just wondering if the writing on the wall was a reference to another game or just coincidence.

[66499a8cece9fZylonBane]

Everything on the Earth map is a stock SS2 resource. That wall in the referenced area has some graffiti, so that was the closest match available.

[66499a8ced00fJDR13]

I think destroying security cameras should set off the alarm. As it is, the cameras are somewhat trivial considering how easy they are to destroy. They have very little impact on the gameplay.