SS2 NoSpiders

[66331757500d8Fironkkuify]

I didn't take the date into account.  My bad.

Was there really a need for the disrespect though? 

[66331757504abRocketMan]

An analogy might be appropriate here.  Would you be upset with the kitchen stove if you burnt yourself on it because you weren't paying attn. to where your hand was?

[66331757506b0Fironkkuify]

My earlier remark about "adorable bastards" was basically hinting at my own annoyance at the spiders but at the same time implying that I like them in the game cause they are pretty neat.

Sure enough my remark was misplaced and badly timed (it's in my blood pretty much) but the context is far from offensive or crude.  I don't go around the forums to make fun or insult others because they may find discomfort about a particular aspect of the game (especially the spiders because I know how serious a phobia can be.  Trust me, I knew someone with a phobia towards men and it wasn't pretty).

I don't mean to look like an idiot (then again, who can avoid looking like one 100 percent of the time?) but I was just randomly browsing the forums during the last week of school and came upon this topic.  Typed in an ironic remark about how I love and hate the arachnids, and that was that.  Hardly a matter to get upset over. 

It's my fault for not considering the time of the last post and continuing a conversation that probably ended like a year or so ago.  I was just bored.  If it really bothered anyone, all I needed to know was that my remark was probably inappropriate for certain reasons.  I'd apologize, look into it a bit to remendy my behavior to make the occurance less likely to happen, conform to the policies; problem solved.

[663317575082bKolya]

You made a mistake, no big deal. ZylonBane called you out on it harshly. Try not to make such a big deal of this either. Move on everyone. Thanks.

For the record: Generally thread necromancy is no problem as long as you have something new to add to the topic. This could also be a new question.

[6633175750900Fironkkuify]

Thanks for the understanding

[6633175750a8aShotgunz25]

So, just what is the small addition in the Sim unit 3 trap.

[6633175750b91Kolya]

Certainly some enemy coming out of the trap so it makes more sense in the context of the game. And just as surely this ain't spiders. That's not Enchantermon's type of humour.

[6633175750cb6PJWILLOWNU]

As a warning, there is still a spider's corpse on the Recreation deck in the mall area (the one with the gardens and I think the chemical room).  It's dead but be prepared if you're an arachnophobe like me.  It's near a dead body that may or may not have good loot on it (I forgot what I found last time) in the second section of shops.  Other than that the mod works really well.

[6633175750e61voodoo47]

a question for all our arachnophobic friends - how well do you cope with giant beetles? because I think it shouldn't be too hard to replace all the SS2 spiders with a custom giant beetle model made for Thief2, allowing an arachnophobic person to play the game without breaking a lot of stuff (as simply removing the spiders will indeed break a lot of stuff).

[66331757511bbJackTheHacker]

a question for all our arachnophobic friends - how well do you cope with giant beetles? because I think it shouldn't be too hard to replace all the SS2 spiders with a custom giant beetle model made for Thief2, allowing an arachnophobic person to play the game without breaking a lot of stuff (as simply removing the spiders will indeed break a lot of stuff).

It could even be fed into the storyline, like they are slightly more grown worms/a different type of annelid.

[6633175751436Kolya]

As far as I could find out the phobia is triggered by the extra pair of legs, the scuttling and the unpredictable movement patterns.
In western society, around 55% of women and 18% of men experience a fear of spiders to some degree (src).
The phobia alters their perception, making arachnids appear bigger (src, src) and closer (src) than they really are, to those affected. Fun fact: Even many entomologists suffer from arachnophobia (src).

Looking at the huge spiders in SS2 that try to jump on you, the game increases those perceptions. I assume that replacing the spiders with beetles would only partly work for arachnophobes, since only one of the triggers is removed. It might be enough to lower the feelings from phobia to a mere aversion, which would work in the context of the game. The crawlies are supposed to be enemies after all. But replacing them with a completely different foe (eg birds) would be the safer bet.

[6633175751572voodoo47]

as someone who is ok with spiders/beetles, I can't really relate, that's why it'd be nice to have a real arachnophobic comment on this, so I can consider whether a spider->beetle mod would be worth attempting.

[66331757518fcJackTheHacker]

Looking at the huge spiders in SS2 that try to jump on you, the game increases those perceptions. I assume that replacing the spiders with beetles would only partly work for arachnophobes, since only one of the triggers is removed. It might be enough to lower the feelings from phobia to a mere aversion, which would work in the context of the game. The crawlies are supposed to be enemies after all. But replacing them with a completely different foe (eg birds) would be the safer bet.

While we're at it, why don't we change every enemy into fluffy teddy bears so that nobody gets scared?

[6633175751c58Jack Ripper]

While we're at it, why don't we change every enemy into fluffy teddy bears so that nobody gets scared?

Yeah, fluffy teddy bears would fit well in spaceship filled with ninjas and monkeys shooting ice/fire balls into everything!

[6633175751f17ZylonBane]

Yeah, fluffy teddy bears would fit well in spaceship filled with ninjas and monkeys shooting ice/fire balls into everything!

[66331757521afKolya]

While we're at it, why don't we change every enemy into fluffy teddy bears so that nobody gets scared?

Phobia is not another word for being easily scared. It's a medical condition with sometimes severe consequences for sufferers. If you're interested here's a good article about arachnophobia.

[663317575241eJackTheHacker]

Phobia is not another word for being easily scared. It's a medical condition with sometimes severe consequences for sufferers. If you're interested here's a good article about arachnophobia.

Thanks for the article. (I'd also like to state that I used the word "scared" as more or less "phobia/phobias triggered".)

[6633175752661CFW Magic]

I think I have figured out how this mod was made and ported it to work with SCP beta 2 (untested so far as I have just finished learning how to use ShockED), being arachnophobic myself, I couldn't bring myself to enjoy that excellent mod just because of these enemies, which, IMHO, is a waste.

For anybody interested, here's the modified shockscp.gam. As said above, it's largely untested. The spiders are set to be un-rendered (invisible), silent, self-destructing on spawn and set to the Good team (player team) to be murdered by any other wandering AI shall something go wrong with the other aspects. I haven't found a way to make spiders "slower than an average dead slug" and do zero damage, but even without those, I think it shall be more than enough to help out fellow arachnophobiacs enjoy the excellent SCP mod.

Please test it out and let me know if it works properly (it should, but who knows?) and if possible, send feedback as this is essentially my very first time using ShockED and I had to figure out how to do that by myself (largely because the advanced tutorial had too much info for me to dig through to find the relevant sections).

Installation process is fairly simple: go to DMM folder in your SCP linked System Shock 2 folder, then to your SCP Beta 2 folder and un-zip the package inside it. The only file in the package is shockscp.gam. Don't forget to back up the original in case I have screwed something up.

P.S.: For our amazing host (Kolya) and/or SCP dev team, feel free to re-host/include the modded .gam in releases or wherever else you need to help out other arachnophobics.

P.P.S.: Shoutout to voodoo47 and ZylonBane for bringing us SCP. Excellent work out there, people.

Peace,

Magic.

[6633175752a94CFW Magic]

Post

I KNEW I forgot something. Forgot to complete process the .gam and as a result many things broke (footstep and door opening/closing sounds being one of them) and I can't even edit my own post because I posted as a guest. Well fuck me sideways ... I need to stop messing around with ShockED in the middle of the night and get some actual sleep ..

Anyway, the .gam is fixed and re-packed. Should work now. Do not use the package in the above links, use this one only. If a mod can remove my above post, I'd appreciate it too.

Cheers,

Ninja: Removed it for now, I'll be making a DML version, if it's at all possible.

Magic.

[6633175752c36voodoo47]

those are actually symptoms of editing the gamesys without having a map loaded, something you should never do.

anyway, this is exactly the type of mod that should be done via dml, to minimize chances of screwups and to maximize compatibility and (ease of) future editability.

also, there is a giant roach model available at TTLG, turning the spiders into roaches would probably allow arachnophobic people to play while not breaking the game as much (removing three enemy types completely does affect the game balance for quite a bit).

[6633175752e08CFW Magic]

I see. I've had some sleep and I might want to try and do that (DML edits) instead of toying around with the gamesys, however ... This was the very first time I have actually used ShockED whatsoever so it might take some more time to get  myself good enough to do that. For the time being, I'll re-edit gamesys with a map loaded (cheers for that advice, really helps out). Processing the gamesys fixed the sound problems, but there may be other bugs I'm not aware of.

I'd also suggest using a fly or perhaps something similar to inviso-mutants (since arachnids are supposed to be semi-invisible in some instances), as I'm not sure that a roach model will solve the issue. In my example I start to have uncontrollable panic fits and start vomiting whenever I see a spider, but roaches and such have less of an effect, despite still provoking anxiety. But some of my family members in the same situation have similar circumstances with pretty much anything which has more than 6 legs and crawls low and fast.

[6633175752f98voodoo47]

converting the changes into a dml should be pretty easy, if you know/remember what changes need to be done. check the dml stuff over at Engineering.

no idea whether some other suitable replacement creature models exist - I'm aware of the roach, but would actually have to ask for the model at TTLG, as I don't see it in any of the public model repositories at a quick glance.

but it's good to see an actual arachnophobiac's angle on this - as I have absolutely no problem with insects, it's pretty hard for me to imagine how things work for someone who does.


the only thing that can disgust me almost up to the point of vomiting are.. people.

[66331757530beCFW Magic]

Basically the only way I can deal with insects is by burning them. Get a deodorant and a lighter, light 'em up ... If they're in ashes, I'm a little less panicked ... Insects with less feet/

Either way, I'll do the dml part soon as I'm able to. I'm at work right now, nightshifts and whatnot.

[66331757531bdZylonBane]

[secretly replaces file with an all-spiders mod]