SS2 No Keypad Cheese - No more metagaming passcodes

[6648d21638251ZylonBane]

I'm pretty sure that "solution" was just a side effect of trying to make Deus Ex more console-friendly by removing the necessity to manually enter codes.

[6648d216384a2voodoo47]

it also robs you of the option to actually guess the code.

[6648d21638795sarge945]

Yeah, my guess is they couldn't find a good way to make a keypad work with a controller, so scrapped it. I actually like entering codes. It feels more diagetic, makes the world more immersive, and leaves you vulnerable while typing it in, which is awesome.

I just don't like how cheesable they are, hence this mod. I could have easily converted keypads into essentially "buttons" but chose not to for the reasons above.

[6648d21638d86JDoran]

ZB, and Sarge945, it probably was, and Voodoo, definitely. But it's still a good solution in my eyes, though admittedly I'm not someone likely to take the time to try to cold-guess a four digit number (a 4 digit number has 10,000 possible combinations). And if the game maker's did want to encourage the player to guess the correct pass code, or to say just guess one digit from that pass code, then they could make it so that on that one in-game world numerical entry pad the player does get to manually enter the digits.

Yeah, my guess is they couldn't find a good way to make a keypad work with a controller, so scrapped it. I actually like entering codes. It feels more diagetic, makes the world more immersive, and leaves you vulnerable while typing it in, which is awesome.

I just don't like how cheesable they are, hence this mod. I could have easily converted keypads into essentially "buttons" but chose not to for the reasons above.

Oh, the PC version's numerical entry system certainly has it's plus points. It is more realistic, and does add to the immersion of the game And yes, the fact that typing in the codes manually leaves you vulnerable to enemies is a good thing in a game that makes a reasonable attempt at being realistic (for a video game) without going overboard.

Though I do disagree with you (and the makers of the PS2 version of the game, if such is their view) that manually entering the numerical codes on a PS2 wouldn't be comfortable. Entering a four digit number via joypad onto an in-game-world numerical pad isn't difficult or tedious, as long as it's done properly, as in games such as in Prey 2017, where you get 4 x 3 entry grid, including the ten numerical digits squares, a delete the last digit square, and one other square (in Prey's case, it's a "Hack this law" square), and the movement of the selection cursor is constant, comfortably quick, and easy to use. But entering text based passwords, which in Deus Ex can be and usually are much longer than four characters, would potentially be annoying, or at least tedious, using an onscreen keyboard that included all of the numbers and letters and so would have around forty onscreen keys, so there at least I agree with you. Probably the PS2 version's makers thought "Might as well make all of the passwords, whether numeric or alphanumeric, be entered automatically". I think it was probably for the best".

NB; I read on the brilliant 8/16 bit game comparison website (https://frgcb.blogspot.com/) that the Japanese NES (the Famicom) version of Maniac Mansion uses a password entry system to save your game state, and it can be up to 104 characters long!

The game's entry screen is the second from the left  on the bottom row, the black screen with the white text. There are a lot of characters on that screen, and you'd have to select up to 104 of them to 'reload' your 'saved' game.   

Ignore the other screenshots, they are from different versions of the game.

[6648d21638e98sarge945]

Keep in mind that there are numerous keypads in Deus Ex with more than 4 digits. They are rare but they do exist.

[6648d21638fe8voodoo47]

or less than four.

[6648d21639181sarge945]

1.2 is out. If enough people complain, I can re-add the top messages easily, they are simply commented out.

Sorry, @ZylonBane for implementing what is essentially the same features from this mod. I saw your solution in the other thread and just couldn't resist doing a similar thing here.

[6648d2163944cForscythe]

@sarge945 I'm using this mod with SCP Beta 5 and I'm locked out of the Engineering Control keypad (15061). I've done a few tests and it happens from the moment you make it to Engineering, leaving the player unable to interact with it whatsoever. If you make it through the Cargo Bays and pick up the audio log with the code, you're still unable to enter it although the code does display on the keypad as intended.

I was looking at the SCP Beta 5 bug thread and saw another user reported this, but they never followed up with you on it 🙊. Hopefully, this helps narrow down what's going on. If you need anything else from me let me know.

[6648d216395d2sarge945]

Thanks for the in-depth bug report.

I'll have a look at it over the coming days and hopefully have a fix for it.

Do you mean that the keypad is unusable, or that it simply doesn't open when you type the code?

[6648d216398f9Forscythe]

sarge945
It's unusable, you can't interact with it at all.

No problem btw, I'm glad I could help somewhat to get this resolved.

[6648d21639ac2sarge945]

How convenient, I even left myself a note in the DML...

Code: [Select]

//Has No Inherit set, so we need to set this manually
//TODO: Remove this when SCP5 releases
+ObjProp 1181 "Scripts"
{
"Script 3" "sargeRandomKeypad"
"Don't Inherit" true
}

I was not able to reproduce the problem, but I think I know what it might have been.

Anyway, give this a try and let me know how/if it works. To test it, you will need to load a save from before entering engineering.
[No Keypad Cheese TEST.7z expired]

[6648d21639dd9Forscythe]

sarge945
So, slightly good news. The keypad is interactable upon making it to Engineering, but it won't open the door when inputting the passcode after grabbing the audio log. And the code doesn't display on the UI under the keypad either.

I went back to check if this is affecting the other keypads on Engineering, but I can make it into Aux Storage 4 just fine.

[6648d21639fdbZylonBane]

By the way, the approach used to no-cheese the rec transmitter will absolutely not work anymore in Beta 5, due to a change made to allow the art codes to appear in the quest notes in the order they're found.

[6648d2163a0efsarge945]

What was changed?

The transmitter looks for the 4 note QVARs being set. Are they no longer set?

[6648d2163a58fsarge945]

sarge945
So, slightly good news. The keypad is interactable upon making it to Engineering, but it won't open the door when inputting the passcode after grabbing the audio log. And the code doesn't display on the UI under the keypad either.

I went back to check if this is affecting the other keypads on Engineering, but I can make it into Aux Storage 4 just fine.

I hate my life.

So the code definitely displays in your notes, but the keypad doesn't register it?

[6648d2163a7fcZylonBane]

What was changed?

The transmitter looks for the 4 note QVARs being set. Are they no longer set?

Dark hard-codes the order that notes appear in the quest notes panel. It's impossible to dynamically, programmatically, change the order of quest notes. So how would it be possible to seemingly do that for the art terminal codes?

Well, just take a look at Beta 5's NOTES.STR.

[6648d2163a943sarge945]

Code: [Select]

Note_5_10:"Found art code: [1"
NoteOrder_5_10:"510"
Note_5_11:"Found art code: 10"
NoteOrder_5_11:"511"
Note_5_12:"Found art code: 4"
NoteOrder_5_12:"512"
Note_5_13:"Found art code: 6]"
NoteOrder_5_13:"513"

Note_5_14:"Found art code: [1"
NoteOrder_5_14:"514"
Note_5_15:"Found art code: 10"
NoteOrder_5_15:"515"
Note_5_16:"Found art code: 4"
NoteOrder_5_16:"516"
Note_5_17:"Found art code: 6]"
NoteOrder_5_17:"517"

Note_5_18:"Found art code: [1"
NoteOrder_5_18:"518"
Note_5_19:"Found art code: 10"
NoteOrder_5_19:"519"
Note_5_20:"Found art code: 4"
NoteOrder_5_20:"520"
Note_5_21:"Found art code: 6]"
NoteOrder_5_21:"521"

Note_5_22:"Found art code: [1"
NoteOrder_5_22:"522"
Note_5_23:"Found art code: 10"
NoteOrder_5_23:"523"
Note_5_24:"Found art code: 4"
NoteOrder_5_24:"524"
Note_5_25:"Found art code: 6]"
NoteOrder_5_25:"525"

Well this sucks...

[6648d2163aac0ZylonBane]

Eh, just replace the current explicit multi-note syntax with a hard-coded function to scan the range from 5_10 to 5_25 and give the thumbs up if any four are set.

[6648d2163ac12notaavatar]

no good, because a hacker can always try to guess if desperate enough.

[6648d2163ad11ZylonBane]

You have no idea what thread you're posting in do you.

[6648d2163b0dasarge945]

Eh, just replace the current explicit multi-note syntax with a hard-coded function to scan the range from 5_10 to 5_25 and give the thumbs up if any four are set.

Yeah, I was going to do something similar to this.

I just need to actually get off my ass and do it, I've been too busy modding Deus Ex.

no good, because a hacker can always try to guess if desperate enough.

ummm......

[6648d2163b219notaavatar]

well in a game that is supposed to be about hacking, making it impossible to actually hack the password is a bit nuts. Its something people do. I did it to get my stolen and resold bicycle back. It takes a while but its a valid strategy towards defeating a lock.

No matter how complicated the password, you have at least 1 attempt at either a difficult or astronomically difficult guess. If its locked out because of the game then you lose the hacker appeal of system shock 2.

[6648d2163b2efsarge945]

What?

[6648d2163b447ZylonBane]

Yo, Nota, you know you're posting in the thread for an OPTIONAL mod, right? Y'know, a mod that players must CHOOSE to install?