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Topic Summary

Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 07. May 2024, 21:24:38 »

ACCOMPLISHMENT UNLEASHED: CHAPEAU PRO A-GO-GO
Bananas is pleased with your hat-collecting ways. You shall have a place in his regime as Chief of Hats.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. May 2024, 20:42:38 »

bleh. no.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 07. May 2024, 18:46:33 »

I'm currently toying with the idea of having some sort of pseudo-achievement popup if the player manages to find all the crew caps, but I can't decide if that would be:
A) A good idea.
B) Some Night Dive Skully-grade self-indulgent bullshit.

I mean we've already shoehorned two pretty massive easter eggs into this thing. Might be best to quit while we're ahead.

For context, crew cap objects were added in Beta 5, to give a little lore grounding between the two different styles of crew AI models, the older of which wear caps, and the newer ones which do not. So as to not get too silly with them, only one was added per deck, and one on the Rickenbacker.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 04. May 2024, 23:54:45 »

I knew that there was an original bug where you could use Soma Transfer to kill the brain without destroying the stars...  but this thing? No.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 04. May 2024, 23:13:12 »

At first I thought I'd messed up the new Soma Drain script. Nope, original behavior.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 04. May 2024, 22:22:56 »

told you we are here forever.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 04. May 2024, 21:28:06 »

How have I never heard of this glitch before?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaN7FBjfL_0
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 01. May 2024, 11:44:46 »

Is "you should be able to drain eggs" some sort of euphemism? It somehow sounds dirty.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 01. May 2024, 08:04:24 »

yes, you should be able to drain eggs, they definitely are organic. and not friendly.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 01. May 2024, 01:05:04 »

Oh lord, I just noticed the Eggs archetype has a receptron on it to abort DrainStim, but it doesn't work, because Irrational left No Max unchecked.

So Soma Drain was never supposed to work on eggs... but for the last 20+ years it HAS worked on eggs... so SCP should probably go with precedent over intent here.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 30. April 2024, 20:06:08 »

Yeah, links and receptrons have had move up / down buttons for years now.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 30. April 2024, 17:00:33 »

I didn't even know you could re-arrange them (is that something new in NewDark?) - I'd just edit both and change them to do what the other is doing.

Preventing it from draining more health than it has would need scripts though.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 30. April 2024, 16:33:53 »

It should... but should I? Also trying to swap them produces a dialog I've never seen before about regenerating indexes which automatically terrifies me.

Another fun fact, you can actually get more HP out of a target with Soma Drain than it has, because it just grants you a flat HP amount based on your psi stat. Maybe RSD RSD fixes this, I don't know.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 30. April 2024, 16:11:43 »

Swapping the order of the two receptrons in the vulnerability metaprop should fix that.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 30. April 2024, 15:49:11 »

Fun Fact: Soma Drain will kill eggs, but won't give you any HP from them. This is because it works by sending two signals to the target: "subtract target HP", then "add player HP". But when eggs die, the egg object is deleted, so nothing exists to receive the second signal. Oops.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 27. April 2024, 02:22:03 »

Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 25. April 2024, 06:17:36 »

Now possible to mod in background music for the Body of the Many, should you choose to do so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp8weHk0eNU
Who among you can come up with an actually appropriate track for such a setting?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 23. April 2024, 17:23:30 »

That's actually handled by a different subsystem. The frob-handling module displays "...picked up", then calls the add-to-inventory function in the inventory handler, which spits it back out into the world if there's no room.

I suppose the picked-up message is more informative than the no-room message, since it tells you what you tried to pick up.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 23. April 2024, 17:06:52 »

Plus, I suspect people would miss that "Items dropped" prompt.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 23. April 2024, 15:53:11 »

Item pickup is an engine-level function.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 23. April 2024, 15:50:02 »

let me guess, squirrel it up so it would say No room in inventory instead?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 23. April 2024, 15:06:30 »

Also, not really a bug, but in misc.str there's a string definition, InvFull:"No room in inventory." But it's never used. If you try to pick up something with a full inventory it still displays "Whatever picked up.", followed immediately by Betty saying "Item dropped."
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 23. April 2024, 07:49:45 »

yeah, that rings a bell.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 23. April 2024, 05:02:44 »

Just noticed a fun little bug that got faithfully translated over to the Squirrel version of the ecology script: If you're spotted by a camera, then run around getting spotted by other cameras during the security alert, when the alert ends only the camera that initiated the alert will be reset. All the other cameras will be stuck in high alert mode for... a while.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 17. April 2024, 18:39:57 »

at one point I was thinking this may be hinting your chances of successfully turning another node, but no, this really is just that horizontal lines are green, and vertical are orange-ish.

still think this does not need a-changing.


the fact the training voice says ice nodes are RED even though they are oh so obviously not annoys me more (but would still leave it alone, probably).
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 17. April 2024, 14:02:01 »

Rarely, but occasionally, I'll see players confused by the fact that in the hack/repair/modify interface, the horizontal and vertical connecting lines are different colors.

I don't think I ever even noticed the difference in colours (I have never been observant - and I wanted to be a detective, when I was a kid...). But I think that orange looks more striking, as in it doesn't look so much like part of the interface, so it could be said to underline the illegal (illegal as in not usual with the interface, because it's a sign of the interface being hacked) action being performed.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 16. April 2024, 08:40:13 »

I find the little bastards blowing themselves up sometimes quite enjoyable. would leave it be.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 16. April 2024, 04:42:05 »

Since monkeys kill themselves SO MUCH with their own shots, I wonder if it would be too much to give them some resistance to their own shots. E.g. give red monkeys resistance to incendiary damage, and blue monkeys resistance to cold damage.

This would be a nerf to cryo/pyro users, would it not?

What if they did a duplicate damage type that everything else had the same resistances to as normal, but they had 100% resistance.



"Backdoor Access Utilised"

*cheesy music starts playing*
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 15. April 2024, 03:54:53 »

Since monkeys kill themselves SO MUCH with their own shots, I wonder if it would be too much to give them some resistance to their own shots. E.g. give red monkeys resistance to incendiary damage, and blue monkeys resistance to cold damage.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 12. April 2024, 02:15:46 »

I've always seen them as dark red
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 12. April 2024, 01:54:12 »

The color they picked for ICE nodes is also kind of... not good, IMHO. The manual says they're red, but they're actually brown (#703E09). Orange when brightened. Cant' just make them pure red though, because red on green is a recipe for eye strain.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 12. April 2024, 01:17:43 »

The standard highlight colour looks more consistent and in-line with the interface, but the orange stands out more.

I would go with the consistent option.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 10. April 2024, 23:59:15 »

Jesus christ what kind of attitude is that towards UX.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 10. April 2024, 23:47:44 »

I would leave it be. a bit of confusion is not bad sometimes.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 10. April 2024, 21:34:21 »

Rarely, but occasionally, I'll see players confused by the fact that in the hack/repair/modify interface, the horizontal and vertical connecting lines are different colors.



It's completely reasonable to assume that different colors mean different things. But here, the different colors mean absolutely nothing. They're just two bitmaps, iface/hrmbarv.pcx for the vertical bar, and iface/hrmbarh.pcx for the horizontal bar. The difference is almost certainly a mistake. I'd guess that Irrational was playing around trying to decide which color they liked best, and accidentally shipped it this way.

So in the interests of making this game, that can be confusing and overwhelming for newbies, be a teeny tiny bit less so, I'd like to make these both the same color.

But which color?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 09. April 2024, 14:02:39 »

But of course.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 09. April 2024, 09:37:34 »

I'd leave the training one alone, as it re-locking allows the player to try hacking it again.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 09. April 2024, 02:41:17 »

Assuming that mod works by making keypads unsolvable until their quest conditions are met, it shouldn't matter what the keypads are actually linked to.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 09. April 2024, 02:19:19 »

This all sounds like an elaborate conspiracy to force me to update my No Keypad Cheese mod.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 09. April 2024, 00:51:11 »

choice no. 2 would be so cool.. more immersion    :3
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 09. April 2024, 00:16:17 »

Speaking of keypads, their behavior across the game is an absolute mess from a consistency standpoint.

On the surface, you'd expect keypad doors to act just like keycard doors. That is, once unlocked they behave exactly like any other door. This behavior of keycard doors is almost (but not entirely) consistent across the entire vanilla game. But that consistency only happened because of a feature of the card slot script: After being unlocked, it will pass along any TurnOn/TurnOff messages it receives. So mission authors could easily wire up keycard doors like so:

tripwire --> card slot --> door

Thus automatically allowing the tripwire to control the door after the card slot is unlocked. But the keypad script, inexplicably, DOES NOT have this message-forwarding feature. It will pop open the door on initially entering the correct code or hacking the keypad, but any functionality beyond that is left up to the mission author.

Unsurprisingly, most authors decided it wasn't worth the effort to work around this shortcoming of the script, but some did, and none of them did it the same way. Which gave us this mess:
earth/266: no code (Navy training)
- Closes: On timer after hacking. Closes and becomes locked again after three seconds.
- Open from inside: Button
- Open from outside: Must hack again

medsci1/1681: 45100 (Cryo Recovery A)
- Closes: Never
- Open from inside: n/a
- Open from outside: n/a

medsci1/222: 00000 (Cryo Retraining Storage; code never given)
- Closes: Never
- Open from inside: n/a
- Open from outside: n/a

medsci1/809: 12451 (Maintenance Access Shaft)
- Closes: Never
- Open from inside: n/a
- Open from outside: n/a

medsci2/1148: 98383 (Sub-armory; unhackable)
- Closes: Exit tripwire on inside
- Open from inside: Enter tripwire
- Open from outside: Frob keypad

eng1/1372: 59004 (Utility Storage 4)
- Closes: Exit tripwire spanning both sides
- Open from inside: Enter tripwire
- Open from outside: Enter tripwire or frob keypad

eng1/1500: 00000 (Utility Storage ?; door already open)
- Nonfunctional

eng1/1726: 34760 (Aux. Storage 5; unhackable)
- Closes: Never
- Open from inside: n/a
- Open from outside: n/a

eng1/1181: 15061 (Engineering Control; unhackable)
- Closes: Never
- Open from inside: n/a
- Open from outside: n/a

eng1/910: 94834 (Engineering Override; unhackable)
- Closes: Never
- Open from inside: n/a
- Open from outside: n/a

rec1/1955: 11111 (Crew Annex)
- Closes: Never
- Open from inside: n/a (but there's a button on the inside wired up to open the door if it's closed)
- Open from outside: n/a

rec1/270: 12345 (Crew Safe; code never given)
- Closes: Never
- Open from inside: n/a
- Open from outside: n/a

rec2/624: 50220 (Maintenance Access Shaft; broken; code never given)
- Closes: Timer (10 seconds)
- Open from inside: Button
- Open from outside: Frob keypad

rec2/122: 34093 (Garden maintenance tunnel)
- Closes: Never
- Open from inside: n/a
- Open from outside: n/a

ops4/333: 13433 (Weapons lockup)
- Closes: Timer (8 seconds)
- Open from inside: Button
- Open from outside: Frob keypad

command2/1609: 83273 (Security Station)
- Closes: Never
- Open from inside: n/a (but there's a tripwire across the door wired to the keypad)
- Open from outside: n/a (ditto)
So  yeah... I normally prefer to go with "majority rules" when making things consistent, but of the keypad doors where the author tried to make them behave realistically, there is no majority, even within the same map!

I'd say it comes down to a choice between two approaches:
  • Make them behave exactly like keycard doors.
    • Pro: Safest and simplest
    • Con: Would require stripping out a few existing buttons
  • Make them close behind you when walking through the door, then require explicitly frobbing either the keypad from the outside or a button from the inside to re-open the door.
    • Pro: Differentiates keypad-secured areas from keycard-secured areas, making them feel more like the extra-secure locations they're supposed to be
    • Con: Would require adding a lot of buttons

AAAAaaaggghhh....
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 06. April 2024, 02:13:15 »

I was just thinking, it's hardly fair that card slots get to show their locked/unlocked status, but keypads don't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM562fHV5bo
Too much?

don't waste time patting yourself on the back.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 06. April 2024, 00:28:48 »

Well, keycard doors do the same thing. Swipe once, unlocked forever.

A way in which they do differ is that keypad doors mostly stay open after being unlocked, unlike keycard doors, which mostly behave like normal doors after being unlocked. I have considered changing this to make keypad door behavior consistent with the other door types.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 06. April 2024, 00:18:40 »

I like it, but it kind of draws attention to the fact that the keypads generally stay unlocked forever after you enter the code once - which was never exactly realistic.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 06. April 2024, 00:07:13 »

I was just thinking, it's hardly fair that card slots get to show their locked/unlocked status, but keypads don't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM562fHV5bo
Too much?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 05. April 2024, 17:12:18 »

There has been some internal discussion regarding adding a feature to automatically move AIs away the QBR when the player dies and respawns, to prevent situations where the player gets trapped in a spawn-camp loop.

Would this be a welcome change?
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 05. April 2024, 02:11:17 »

Anyone else find it distractingly odd that the Midwife organ requires no chemicals to research? Considering how numerous, dangerous, and complex they are, you'd think the game would make players go fetch at least one chemical to get that sweet damage bonus.

I would suggest swapping the themical requirement with the useless worms. So they require nothing to research, and the midwife requires whatever they required.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 03. April 2024, 18:38:33 »

considering how long it takes to research the organ, I'd say this is intentional. nothing needed but takes forever.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 03. April 2024, 17:35:00 »

Anyone else find it distractingly odd that the Midwife organ requires no chemicals to research? Considering how numerous, dangerous, and complex they are, you'd think the game would make players go fetch at least one chemical to get that sweet damage bonus.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 03. April 2024, 15:10:16 »

Memo to self: Make screen invulnerable.
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