SS2 to appear on GOG.com soon?

[66377e134e14aZylonBane]

good thing I'm immune to stupidity.

Are you? ARE YOU?

[66377e134e33fvoodoo47]

apart from mine own, yes. after so many years of online support, my stupidity receptors are all but destroyed. it's like when you live inside a sewer - after some time, the stench will burn away your sense of smell, so you won't be able to tell it actually stinks down there. in my case, the stupidity just flies around - and I don't feel it anymore..

treasure your ability of being able to get mad at people while you still have it - world just feels dull without it.

[66377e134e6fbJoin2]

apart from mine own, yes. after so many years of online support, my stupidity receptors are all but destroyed.

I would have thought scenarios like that involve more ignorance than stupidity? Sure you may have to deal with a genuinely dumb fool every now and then, but most of the time it's because they are uneducated in a particular subject, not downright stupidity...Of course I am partially ignorant to what the job entails, so I could be completely wrong 

For the guy complaining about the RPG elements- Yes, he is probably too stupid to handle the minor complexities (complex for a game). I would say he is probably just ignorant to their benefits, but to claim they do nothing is stupidity, and I love the RPG elements and wish more games had them in vast quantities, so fuck him. 

[66377e134e9d7Kolya]

I may have to lay off the GOG SS2 forum, the stupidity there is just grinding me down. Latest affront-- the guy who claims that SS2's RPG elements "added nothing and made for a considerably worse experience". Sigh.

So dethtoll is posting on GOG now? 

[66377e134eda4Marvin]

good thing I'm immune to stupidity.

I was wonderiung how you're managing to stay sane during the whole time since release.

My favourite one is the God mode topic.

[66377e134efcaSimplex]

My two favorites are:
- Guy confuses "render" with "renderer" - hilarity ensues: http://www.gog.com/forum/system_shock_2/renderer
- Guy "HD remasters" SS2 cutscenes by upscaling them and messing up the aspect ratio in the process:  http://www.gog.com/forum/system_shock_2/cgi_videos_in_hd

[66377e134f131Kolya]

Got a mail from Stephen Kick. Shortly after he was here on the boards, but he left without a word. So there.

[66377e134f4abEnchantermon]

Well that's just great. GOG blames Night Dive and Night Dive blames GOG. So much drama that could have all been easily avoided if some person(s) hadn't dropped the ball. Was it really too much to hope that this release could have come without baggage?

[66377e134f63cBriareos H]

So who lied? We already know that the GOG rep fabricated a nice little story about his "techninjas" so I might be tempted to believe Mr. Kick. Place your bets!

[66377e134f870Join2]

So who lied? We already know that the GOG rep fabricated a nice little story about his "techninjas" so I might be tempted to believe Mr. Kick. Place your bets!

Possibly both. If both parties blame each other then it's hard to find which is the culprit. Isn't that an ancient tactic?

[66377e134fa11icemann]

So Night Dive is blaming GOG. Interesting.

Doesn't the GOG release contain far more than just SS2Tool? Was reading over at TTLG that it contains New Dark content as well (the main exe file for the game and some other stuff). If that is true then Night Dive did no work on the game at all. He DID do great work in getting all parties (EA, Star Insurance etc) to all agree on a deal however which I will give him some points for, as that was an achievement in itself. Taking credit for other peoples work though no. Very bad.

[66377e134fc03redrain85]

I'll go with both.  I think Night Dive didn't inform GOG of exactly what was done, and GOG embellished on the additional changes they claimed they did.  (Either that, or neither party wanted to acknowledge the work done by others because it might have initially placed their ability to release SS2 at risk.)

Regardless, I'm betting neither side really cared up until this point.  Since the author(s) of NewDark are anonymous, there was no need to credit anyone.  Meanwhile, Night Dive (conveniently?) overlooked the fact that the author of SS2Tool isn't anonymous.  (Possibly hoping Kolya and other contributors wouldn't care or might not notice?)

All that being said, here's something else to take into consideration: the timing of person(s) making an effort to secure the rights to SS2 - only after NewDark was released - is rather curious, don't you think?  Coincidence?  I don't think so.

Still, credit due to Night Dive (well, it's really just Kick isn't it?) for securing the SS2 rights.  I'll give them that.


I guess we'll never know the full story.

[66377e134fdecHikari]

Kolya, am I a bad person for wanting NIghtDive/GoG to keep using ss2Tool to keep the release(s) synced to the latest set of bugfixes?


Seriously dude you're being a pretty chill guy about all this considering you totally got ripped off. If/when money becomes available (stupid needing to eat) site's getting a donation from me.

[66377e134fedaMarvin]

Mmh, juicy. I''m eagerly awaiting GOG's response.

[66377e1350195Zygo]

So who lied? We already know that the GOG rep fabricated a nice little story about his "techninjas" so I might be tempted to believe Mr. Kick. Place your bets!

OTOH, GOG doesn't really have a reason not to give credit, except to justify the 'techninjas' remark which came late in the process and was probably a throw away line not really meant to stand scrutiny and made with minimal real thought. It's not like leaving out a list of contributors benefits them, and they generally have credited others in the past when appropriate. There isn't any conclusive evidence either way, in any case

I found the 'collaborate on future projects' bit most interesting- if it ain't a sop/ throwaway.

[66377e13504a7Kolya]

Kolya, am I a bad person for wanting NIghtDive/GoG to keep using ss2Tool to keep the release(s) synced to the latest set of bugfixes?

I sent mail to GOG last night to discuss these things with them. Haven't heard from them yet.

I think it would be best for both sides if GOG kept on selling the stable release they have with some minor corrections. If GOG regularly fixed their release with the latest SS2Tool they would always be lagging behind. People would still come here to get latest. Which would mean I would continously have to adapt SS2Tool to what they currently have included.
This I won't do. It's simply too much work with no gain.
 
Also keep in mind that I'm just a guy who does this as a hobby. While I try to do my best, I can and have made mistakes with SS2Tool. And I may put out stuff, not knowing if it will work for the majority. Because I don't have a QA departement, apart from you dear reader. 

I can afford to work this way because SS2Tool is free. But if GOG sold a bugged SS2 release for a while they'd be in more trouble.
So as I see it, it is better for GOG and me if they stick with their release. And the people who are a bit more adventurous and have to have the latest, come here to update with SS2Tool. If GOG credits us on their gamecard it would help with that too.   

[66377e13505cevoodoo47]

yeah. and just to make sure, the things they could/should modify in the current release (you are probably aware, but better safe than sorry);

-remove skip_intro from cam.cfg to allow the irrational intro to show up on the first run
-change the crop movie exclude from the thief set into the shock set
-update the gamesys dml inside patch_ext.crf so all the explosions would be additively blended (maybe update the entire patch_ext.crf while at it)

[66377e13506c7Kolya]

Noted. There are a few other things to correct in the GOG release, but these are the main points.

[66377e13509afThe Watcher]

(EA, Star Insurance etc)

Pet peeve time again: EA have nothing whatsoever to do with this. At all. End of story. Full stop. Period. Other indication of absolute finality. EA have had no interest in the System Shock franchise since their trademark was abandoned in 2007, and probably before that point really. They never held any copyright on it - Spector negotiated the deal so that EA would have the trademark and a distribution license, and LGS would retain all other rights, and when LGS folded that transferred to Star Insurance. At this point, Star Insurance not only holds all the copyrights for the System Shock franchise, they also hold the trademark, too (well, Meadowbrook, their parent company, does), ie: Star Insurance has full and complete control of the franchise, with Night Dive claiming to have a (hopefully transferrable!) license for digital distribution from them. That's it, no other rightsholders.

[66377e1350aa8icemann]

Ah nice. That's good to hear.

[66377e1350b88voodoo47]

wonder why did they (EA) nuke system shock rebooted then.

[66377e1350ee9Kolya]

Star Insurance has full and complete control of the franchise

Not of System Shock 1.

[66377e13511aaThe Watcher]

Rebooted was back in 2004, when EA still had control of the trademark (and trademarks need to be actively defended to be retained) and probably still had plans to try to acquire the remaining rights. It's been suggested that the game that became Dead Space was originally intended to be Shock 3, but EA was unable to negotiate sane terms with Star Insurance for the use of the IP in the early stages, and gave up the trademark after that. Before that point, they needed to defend the trademark to keep it.

Not of System Shock 1.

True. But they do have the 'System Shock' trademark.

[66377e13512afvoodoo47]

woah, did not realize it was so long ago. time sure flies when you're (not) having fun.