Character modelling questions

[664ab9734c443Marcelo]

Strange  My models do not look that distorted in my game. I replaced the corm_med and ghost_m and they look alright. Have you tried this with other models? BTW How did you managed to replace the corm_hyd? I've tried the same thing but it only changes the textures. I'm even more confused now. 

[664ab9734c679voodoo47]

I've just renamed the model (crum_eng) and dropped it into DataTempMods folder (folder structure must be preserved as well, mesh for the model and mesh/txt16 for the texture). maybe that contributed to the distortion. will try some more things.

[664ab9734c7b1Marcelo]

Please let me know what you have found to see if the problem is in just that particular model. Thank you for the Gif issue the PNG works better so I'll get that fixed. This is how they're supposed to look in game:
Image: http://i50.tinypic.com/zwyptj.png

[664ab9734c945Join2]

I actually really like that Marcelo! Reminds me of the "zombies" in the Sci-fi horror PC/PS1 game Martian Gothic. A very flawed game, but I like it anyway, cos it's cool. 

Anyway textures not true to the original though, so keep going, you're doing good.

[664ab9734ca84Marcelo]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm currently doing the female model. Hopefully I'll have it finished this Monday. I know the models are textured in a very sloppy way but I just want to have them finished and then work to fix the issues cause skinning the models with the original texture is a pain in the ass. It feels like solving a puzzle with pieces that don't match and I have to force them thorough. 

[664ab9734cbc2voodoo47]

confirming, when used as a replacement for the pipe hybrid, the model works much better, same as on your picture. becomes broken when used for humans, either alive or dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rwq7lJ7zic

[664ab9734cf86RocketMan]

I imagine it depends on which template you use to create your mesh.  I bet the planes are set up differently for Garrett than they are for some ss2 corpse.

[664ab9734d13bMarcelo]

Strange. I've already implemented in most of the corf and corm models and it works alright here's some pics:
Image: http://i47.tinypic.com/8yvz4i.png
Image: http://i50.tinypic.com/281boys.png

Other than the transparency issue with the gif file there's no deformation of the models. Maybe it has to do with the cruf and crum models? Here's the female version for testing:

http://rapidshare.com/files/4079600805/Mesh.rar
I've named the the model grunt_p but you can change the name to whichever female model for testing.

[664ab9734d366voodoo47]

seems like they are broken only for me for some reason. will investigate. are you using any mods btw?

//ah, ok, forgot to rename the cal file. working fine now.


ok, played around a bit, here are some notes:

- I see you are making the textures for the new models by basically mirroring the original texture, and then modifying it manually a bit. not sure whether this is the right approach - optimally, the new higher poly models should be able to load the original textures. or at least I think those kind of models ("keep the classic look, just with more polygons") would be most beneficial for the community.
- no need to upscale the new textures to 512x512, 256x256 will work just as well.
- they seem to be quite a bit smaller than they should be.
- some proportions (the butt, for the lack of better words) still seem a bit off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgDCd80hrqU

[664ab9734d534Marcelo]

Thanks for the feedback Voodoo. I agree with your points. The only reason I mirrored the texture was to make space for a better boots image cause the one in vanilla looks pretty bad with the new models.  I really wish to do what you say and pump up the original models. I already have some of them with twice the polygons but the damn 3ds to bin won't accept them for the conversion. I know there must be a way to do it since the the person who made the Rebirth models was capable of doing so and my models are not even close to those in poly count. If someone is reading this and is capable of making my models through the 3ds to bin program please let me know so I can make the original models with the original textures better. My models are much shorter than the vanilla ones cause I took them from the Thief models. I tried to scale them but then again the 3ds to bin program did not allowed me to do so. It makes me very frustrated. 

[664ab9734d650voodoo47]

pretty sure ThiefsieFool did mess with the (rebirth) models, maybe he'll be able to provide some insight.

btw, you have uploader rights, that means you can attach images and archives to your posts.

[664ab9734d769Marcelo]

It would be nice if someone compiled all the Vanilla Models for modification and miscellaneous stuff. I was able to convert the monkey and one female. But I can't convert any other to 3ds. I wouldn't mind starting again with the vanilla models and make them somewhat look nicer. 

[664ab9734d869Marcelo]

  it seems no one seems to know how to convert the vanilla models trough 3ds to bin. I guess I'm stuck with my dwarf female models. 

[664ab9734d95fRocketMan]

You need to have the .e files to do that I thought.  I've never been able to convert anything from ss2, only thief because thief has the files.

[664ab9734dac8Zygo]

You can do it with SS2 bin files, but it doesn't work properly as some of the necessary information is stripped away in the e->bin conversion. You don't get named joints, nor do you get the limit planes, you need the cal files as well and there's notable shortening of the knee-ankle distance all of which are different from T2 conversions. The last one can be adjusted for somewhat using the /a [distance] switch when running bintoe, but I found it never looked good and tended to stretch the top of the foot as well. Practically it may still be easier to use the Thief limit planes and joints.

Note: I'm presuming the integrated converter also has the /a switch available, I've only used the command line versions.

[664ab9734dda9Guud]

Sorry about being a no-show recently, I've been busy with other things. Finally got back round to the project and started playing with different modelling techniques and trying different visual styles with the texture work; still learning the ropes. I've deliberately avoided photo realism as it'd clash with the look that Shock2 has going for it, and instead went for a more painterly tone. This isn't the final skin or model, just a proof of concept, so feel free to give feedback.

Image: http://i48.tinypic.com/301oo5d.png

Also, here's some more concept art to tide you over.
Image: http://i49.tinypic.com/m8lamq.jpg

Image: http://i46.tinypic.com/2utrgwy.jpg

[664ab9734def1voodoo47]

looking good. reeaally good. also, 100% agreed on the photo realism avoiding.

[664ab9734e298unn_atropos]

Very good concept sketches.
The legs of the model look a bit like pajamas with codpiece^^. Also you could add a cap.

I had a goofy minute today, so I made this. Sorry
http://www.tiborplanet.de/sbf/party_hybrid.gif

[664ab9734e40aKolya]

hahaha

Great model, especially the face is good. And I really like those concept skteches. Keep it up!

[664ab9734e53dRocketMan]

The face is superb.  Dunno if I care too much for the crew cut shaved head thing but the face is a keeper.  You really want to capture that sad/serious look without making the characters look like they do in other games.  Wish I could elaborate but even I don't know exactly what I mean by that.  There seems to be some very minor distortion in the angles of the limbs but I blame the engine.  It's amazing you got it to look as good as it looks so early on.

[664ab9734e61eMarcelo]

Great model Guud. Your Crew member put my models in shame! 

[664ab9734e703voodoo47]

everyone has to start from somewhere.

[664ab9734e7ecJohannes]

I would like to view the original models with blender.

I have come so far as to extract the CAL and BIN files - where do i go from here?

[664ab9734eae3vurt]

Guud: Awesome model, unlike Rocketman i prefer the shaved head, hair is very difficult to make natural in games (thus shaved heads are preferable in most cases).

Johannes: if you install ss2tools you get a folder called "tools", where you can find "3ds to bin" which can convert files until you get a .3ds that blender can import. there's also a .e importer for blender but i've forgotten what it's called