SS2 System Shock Infinite 2.4

[6634402b5723cxdiesp]

A question I've been keeping to myself for a very long time, but can no longer do so: Why have you switched the log pics of Bronson and Turnbull?

Lol they're onto me. I wanted a meaner Bronson for the moment you kill her on Deck 4. Also if you check the New Game menu, the 3 main actresses in the story (Marie, Polito, Bronson... along with Shodan) look like 3 different archetypes.

[6634402b58020This_is_Xerxes]

I found another obscure reference - and in the very first post of this thread nonetheless!

"The Quest for Identity" starts off in the aftermath of SHODAN's defeat.

The 2-D platform video game "Flashback" was released as "Flashback: The Quest For Identity". It could be a coincidence, but this game is full of flashback narration and memory restoration and frankly, you have left a lot of easter eggs for us to find

[6634402b581e5xdiesp]

And the Entropy Effect is a famous Star Trek novel. 

[6634402b58340This_is_Xerxes]

Okay, I just got the Prologue Ending, and defeated SHODAN. That last part was very intense, I finished with 1 Health. I don't know if I was  almost dead, or barely alive! I botched the first playthrough because I was 9 cyber-modules short, but got through the second time around.
Good job on planning out these unique achievements, they are a whole lot of fun!

[6634402b584bbxdiesp]

Well done, the boss fight is pretty intense! But it's the planning part that's really hard: players have trouble meeting the requirements to use the Level 6 Energy weapons by the end of the game, let alone right after Hydroponics!

I'll be stuck at the hospital for a week, caring after a person, so I won't be able to work on the mod. I got a couple of fixes ready for the next patch, and started filming the remake of the True Ending. I was thinking that maybe we could have another achievement run where you are not allowed to use Hacking nor PSI, and this makes you join the Many.

[6634402b5860cThis_is_Xerxes]

Good choice: a weak-willed gunslinger who can't manipulate his surroundings to his advantage would be a perfect candidate for this achievement. He would (seemingly) break the Many, destroy SHODAN and, having been worn out from his struggle, embrace the mass.
"After all the effort, mon petit, I would not think you would choose to conform..."

[6634402b587aexdiesp]

Story wise once you kill the Brain, you would get a final short movie from the Many when you walk into assimilation, in between two rows of ghosts. Then you are thrown into the bloodstream and into the final level. Only this time the brain keeps speaking, rumblers appear to your aid, time ghost Marie agonizes and disappears, and Shodan's chamber is invaded by the flesh. The final movie shows the Brain taking her place in the chamber, then there's a quick sequence of battle on the training space station between marines and rumbler. Final scene is this woman (real Marie?), crawling on the floor and dying as the camera shows your biomassed face.

It's not difficult to do, I would have just to test things like having all necessary equipment without using Hack or PSI. In example I can't remember if the security booth with the fusion cannon in Rec is protected by a hackable keypad. Hacking is required to get the gizmo that breaks the shuttle's shields, and the stars around the Brain are PSI, but that can change on the fly if you are detected being in this kind of run.

[6634402b589d1This_is_Xerxes]

I've encountered a problem during my OSA run and I'm stuck in Hydro. I have trouble getting a canister of Toxin-A. I am referring to the one located in the Chemical Storeroom. The only access point to this area is a cracked glass panel on the ceiling, and once I get in, I don't believe I can leave through it - I just can't climb up there!. The other 2 access points are broken doors which require a grenade launcher to open, thus inaccessible on the "OSA - no weapon" path.

I can't think of anything I may have missed and I'm out of ideas on solving this problem. Am I in an unwinnable scenario, or am I just oblivious to the solution? A subtle hint on what my next step should be will suffice.

[6634402b58b03xdiesp]

It's a pretty big area which includes the eggs zone, the monkeys zone and the lab with the midwife ghost right? You can get out with Marie: Escape Route.

Hummm... To avoid trouble, I will see to bring back to normal one of those doors. If you are seriously stuck without Escape Route, spawn a psi trainer with cheat "summon_obj psi trainer".

Edit Oh, and thank you much for the report. Just to mess around, you might try seeing if one of those chems explodes when hit.

[6634402b58e0dThis_is_Xerxes]

You can get out with Marie: Escape Route.

I can't believe I missed that Now you're going to think that I wasn't paying attention to your unique psi-powers, but my brain is hard-wired to follow a certain path within each level and this obstacle resulted in a colossal system crash! Thank you for your help.

[6634402b58ff9xdiesp]

I thought that maybe you weren't picking support abilities! :-) I will change that one door just in case someone totally screws it - but yeah, it's supposed to be a maze moment.

"Marie: Escape Route" has its first useful application in MedSci 1, when you use the recharger that unleashes two turrets on you. It is also the intended way of cheating your way out of the trap at the end of Engineering, when you're done with the elevator quest and instead you have to take that very violent detour underneath.

It is also where the entire system of Tears came from. In the beginning, tears were actually "anomalies" used to fast travel, i.e. from the topmost part of the Rickenbacker back to the entrance. Later, they became involved in small puzzles, like the one in Hydroponics, and their similarity to the Bio Infinite "tears" was lampshaded. You can still glimpse at their original purpose, in the fact that most tears end up moving you around a bit.

Instead Marie had always been an extension of her role in the final level, and you were collecting her thoughts in this cyberspace copy of the Von Braun. Some time later, when I was talking with the testers about making the apparitions into enemies that required PSI attacks to go down, we connected all dots and realized that if all apparitions were of the same guy, we had a co protagonist. Currently, most of the classic apparitions are actually memories of Goggles and Marie has some hundreds new events dedicated to her. :DD

[6634402b5923bxdiesp]

I've been drawing the storyboards for the True Ending's remake and the Many Ending (Join the Many ending? Join Us ending?). The first scores a whopping 90 scenes, possibly less if the audio recordings are shorter than assumed. The latter is no more than a dozen instead, and is split in two segments (beating the Brain, beating Shodan).

Both feature a little revelation: in the True one, Sarah is depicted as a featureless being of light fused to a protoreality tear. Goggles is shown in a flashback, entering the first tear in engineering by linking hands with Sarah. Instead in the Many ending, Goggles becomes the Goggles ghost that stalks you through the game. He ultimately becomes the evil dead thing that is dispatched in the memories.

The challenge from the Many achievement run is supposed to center around these elements:
- With no hacking and PSI, you can't avoid combat.
- Samely, healing and buffs are strictly item related.
- Must run away from PSI creatures (I will have to mercy-despawn some, not to make it too difficult).
- Since you cannot hack crates for modules, you have very few unless you harvest the old rigs.
- Since you won't be using Marie: Break Security, you will not be getting the good loot ahead of time.
So overall, a fighter lacking versatility and capped in several ways.

[6634402b59bc9Hikari]

After I was asked for input on what might be neat for a 'song of the many' questline I got to thinking a little. Granted none of it takes dev time or limits into account so I don't know how doable any of this is.

Just spitballing.

The questline starts if you install any other override card or get a message from one of the reavers (audio being stock many noises) instructing you to install one of the decoy cards as a show of willingness to hear their side. It functions the same as the right card but opents the questline up so if you do thing later it pays off. Otherwise nonstandard game over with you lurching around making hybrid noises and Marie declaring it all lost or something.

After installing the fake override is there a way to decrease the enemy count? Another reaver mail explaining you must still pay for past sins against the biomass, but they will as a show of good faith spare you the worst of their wrath.

Also thinking a key component is you have to go through neither harvesting nor hacking the other rigs. Show goggles as so worn down he's stopped caring. How to have this crop up since the first rig is before this point?

Deck three gives the first gift. An implant that let's you heal while standing in worm piles. Think that exists. There any way to make it not use any power? Given the core requirements are no upgrades it'll be a nessicary crutch for most players. Want most of the rewards to center around this implant or ones like it since that seems to be the easiest way to get around the no upgrades prohibition and the enemy damage tree requiring yo branch out to be able to do any damage.

Reavermail on deck three explaining that the need for you to get to deck four outweighs the pain they will feel to be reduced by the toxin a, but you would be asked to make up for this pain… also something about desiring your cooperation or not their soldiers respond in the same way as white blood cells to an infection and is simply hardwired into their being which cannot be overridden without continued oversight the biomass cannot spare.

Deck four is where shodan's reveal is supposed to happen but... Hey is there a way for shodan to try taking over your implants, comment that you are a slave to your flesh and she must purge your weakness only for the many to intervene with you being booted back to polito's office and shodan going on at how you may enjoy your fruitless rebellion since she has another that can serve as her avatar?

Reavermail hits shortly after noting something has usurped the simulation units (the 'I am in control....' Line booming through the level.) And you must restore xerxes.

Deck five is where you are to pick up a new portible organ.... Or some other organic bits to seed through deck three so the many can adapt to toxin a and regain lost ground.

If that quest is done your reward is not having to fight Rumblers later (would like to see the implant evolve at this point and become unremovable.)

If you try to take the organ/implant without having done the prior quests short cutscene of you doubling over in pain followed by you getting up making hybrid noises. Need a line from Marie about it being a more precice infection vector aimed at those resistant to the worms attempts, ie, you and trying to use it would be a VERY BAD IDEA.

Command turns into you taking eggs from the cargo bays and placing them on deck five for incubation as well as placing a number of the red eggs or possiblty more organs through tears that further organify the ship. At this point to get the optimum many ending you must go through all of the tears with these organs equipped.

Reward for going through all of the tears up to this point is the many granting you their knowledge- I dunno either points in exodic or energy since I want the rick to be you going through a new tear that opens if you go through and many-fy the ship to destroy a 'timeline that represents a grave threat to their survival'.

This would actually be the last level of the game for the many indoctrinated goggles and has you against a cadre of humans lead by a shodan-deciple goggles as well as robots on the edge of erasing the other potential timelines with the jumpdrive. Very hard even with the stat boosting implant that by this point autoregens health.

Wait! Marie said all roads lead to cyberspace. The cult of shodan managing in spite of best efforts from you to stop them has triggered shodan's ascention. Here you must kill her without any aid from the mass or marie....

But there is hints of Sarah guiding you so the hostile AI blocking her attempts at saving the crew is removed.

Ending is Marie sobbing as she ghosts through the infected ship. 'You broke SHODAN's cycle.... But in doing so you chose to lose yourself. Mon Petite.... Their psyonic power keeps me prisoner. Do they wish me to join you, or merely watch helpless? *voiceover as a now unrecognizable con Braun effectively turned into a flying tumor appears back in real space headed past each planet and headed towards earth.*

I would like korinchkin to be the reaver that tempts you, using guile and debate, specifically hinting at being aware at just how long you have been fighting and wouldn't it be nice to just let go? The Many could give him the strength to resist the metal mother. After all he wouldn't be alone would he?

Also need hints partway in that Marie thinks Goggles is trying to usurp the hivemind banking on his own strength of will to try a different tact 'What you are doing is insane..… but we have tried everything else. I do not like this, but I will do what I can to see this through.' The final backing out point would be on the command deck when korinchken wants you to meet him on the bridge.

Xdiesp had a great idea for the ending:

Marie: *sitting in escape pod apparently alive* Mon Petite, was it worth it?The monster is dead. Cantor's demon is finally gone, but at what cost?

*psi projection of goggles fades in and speaks, has overtones of many's influence but still goggles*: Marie... As much as we wish you would join us, that the other survivors would reconsider we understand how frightening it is. You have been both guide and friend helping us resist the metal mother.

Marie: But I have failed!

Goggles: No Marie. Maybe it was simply Sarah trying to find some way for the crew to survive countless variations of the metal mother trying to usurp the jumpdrive. Maybe humanity will one day evolve into Us. We cannot say, but our desire no longer is Earth. We will not return to the cradle.

Mari *skepticle*: But.... I thought the whole goal of the Many was-

Goggles: *laughing* to consume all? If only you could see what we see... We never wanted to harm your ship. When the first of us were brought on board we reached out as a child, unknowing and unthinking, and only later did we see what happened and by then we were caught between korenchkin's greed infecting us from within and the machine mother's threat from without. I can see you do not wish to know our grace and for that we are saddened. You have been our friend in the darkness for so very long. We have one last favor to ask of you. It isn't much, just a pair of messages to deliver.

Marie: what? *confused* what !messages?

Goggles: Show them.…. Show them both your triumph. Let mankind know they can have all the billions of billions of stars in the sky save one. Leave Tau Ceti five alone. Attempt no landings there. Give us time to ourselves. Let us see what happens next. Even if cooperation is not possible give us isolation.

Marie: With everything that's happened... I don't know how the inn will react, but I will show them, yes. What other message?

Goggles: Find Cantor. Tell him. *pause. Chckle.* Tell him not to forget to salt the fries. He'll know what it means and who it's from.

*goggles projection fades but there is one last line*: our paths diverge now after so long together Doctor Marie Delacroix. Your road is far harder and longer than is fair, but if our time together has shown us anything you are more than capible of facing it. Do not be sad for us. We will miss you terribly, but on the next clear night look up. Look to the stars and know we will be there looking back. Whatever happens next for good or I'll you have been our friend, and through that you have given us a chance to grow past Korenchkin's greed and the machine mother's fanaticism. Humanity might never accept us as its children,  it look up and remember. You are not alone anymore.

[6634402b59da9xdiesp]

That's a lot of ideas!  Thank you very much for the help.

It happened that I commissioned one of the oldest playtesters, with testing an achievement run with no hacking and PSI (the tentative requirements for the Many run). The response has been that no hacking is fine, while no PSI is too bothersome and there's no clear feeling you'd be siding with the Many.

So I went back to the original idea of a specific quest to unlock this. Unn Atropos gave me some very valid advice, like that the quest should be at the same time an offer to help the Many, and an act of defiance toward Shodan. In the end, due to time constraints, it will be mostly about "avoiding" or "disrupting" the existing quests instead of completely new ones.

This needs a framework, so I will be expanding on Infinite Korenchkin's role: for those who don"t know, the Korenchkin reaver in the mod, makes an extra appearance before his fight, and hints about knowing you. If we have another half dozen of those, he would beef up the mod's narrative in the second third of the game. In my view, Korenchkin is an evil Andrew Ryan character: has grandiose anspirations, but always lies... even when he is telling a true story.

My idea is to meet him on the decks, where he talks and walks up slowly to you. If he catches you, you're dead.

[6634402b59eefHikari]

Like I said could intentionallyput the wrong card in the override slot.

Or even more simply korimchkin giving a rebuttle come time to harvest your old rig or not: 'I know of your past..... There is nothing there but pain and regret that you have let define your sense of self as much as Diego has allowed his father to define his.

[6634402b5a279voodoo47]

korimchkin

really?

[6634402b5a374Primitive Primate]

It's a difficult name.

[6634402b5a44fHikari]

Laptop's WiFi is busted so having to thumb tap.

[6634402b5a833unn_atropos]

If you allow me, I would like to sum up what the suggestions could amount to
They could give the whole game a new twist. Yeah googles is still vunerable at first and gets stronger. But this time around both fractions see his value more: he is a (possible) partner and a threat at the same time.
In System Shock 2 the many wants you dead: well, they ask you to join, but you don't get a chance really.
And Shodan is abusing your lack of independence and treats you like a (disposable) tool for her plans.
So, in the mod, both parties aren't in the position to ignore the player. Turning him to their side could even help them win the struggle. But can they trust him? To which side does he tend? Can he be an double agent?
The player could help Shodan or the many to win. Or he could outplay them both...

[6634402b5a91fPrimitive Primate]

I like the sound of that

[6634402b5aaa6xdiesp]

Whatever the final result may be, rest assured that all this dialogue takes a spin in my notebook. In my head, Korenchkin is a devilish Orson Welles. It's difficult to take the Many's offers seriously, so maybe with a better ambassador... (shotgun torture aside). I.e. on the Hydroponics deck as you go clear the biomass, Korenchkin might have you listen to the baby cries of the eggs around you, and pray you that the angel once again stops the righteous hand of Abraham during the sacrifice.

Korenchkin being a kind of enemy (a false friendly that vanishes) clears much of the trouble of positioning him. It would be extremely easy to just make his whole quest chain about infecting the Tears (or the old rigs), but I will mix in something more (make the shuttles escape, destroy the sim units, kill all marines on the Rickenbacker). The default effect of infecting a tear, would be replacing all corpses with a whole lot of eggs and monsters. But you also get a couple items as rewards, like the two unused implants, implants with reduced energy drain or early annelid weapons.

[6634402b5ab9aHikari]

If I may:


Is there any way we can have Diego surviving and possibly being an NPC happen?

Apologies if he alreadysurvives via tear but laptop's kinda not in the best of shape.

[6634402b5af9cxdiesp]

Is there any way we can have Diego surviving and possibly being an NPC happen?

Presently, Diego is a corpse and if you enter the Rickenbacker tear, he becomes a stronger than usual explosive hybrid (ID tag: Alternate Captain Diego). There's never been much about him, save that Korenchkin names you his protegeè. I don't have a voice actor for him. :\ What would you like to do, use Diego instead of Korenchkin?

Edit
@UNN Atropos
Sorry, I didn't see your message before! Yes, I realize now that it is important to state the motivation for the Many to "push their partnership offer to the next level". I would think it's because they have discovered a little about your dealings with the time loop and tears: indeed, Marie pieces together that Shodan isn't aware of them but still planned ahead to come out on top; the Many know something actually, for unknown reasons (= one of the Goggleses joined them). Some info gotlost in the passage between text-only Marie and voiced Marie, i.e. I remember very well the Marie close to the first old rig, warning you about playing double agent with SHODAN. Korenchkin might be useful to lampshade the fact no one but you knows about Marie, loop and tears too.

[6634402b5b134Hikari]

Re Diego: I'd wanted a way to save him given he went from superhybrid to at some point shaking off the influence and having the autodock carve it out AMD dying because you flipped gravity at a really bad time.

That the alt version o him falls bugs me a little since I'd always pegged him as managing to defy the many in spite of being susceptible whereas goggles had natural immunity going in his favor.

Having korinchkin act as snark pointing out the absurdness of things amuses me. He is Russian after all. Having the dark humor thing going on seems to be their hat in fiction.