Multiplayer player model swap trouble

[6637578bdea62Zen]

Hey everyone, I'm currently trying to do a very simple model swap of the multiplayer models in System Shock 2, but I'm encountering no end of troubles.

For starters the Blender add-ons I'm able to find are exporting either directly to .bin or to .e neither of which seems to work correctly- I imagine the .bin export isn't working due to the player models requiring some extra data but the closest guides I've found for troubleshooting this were written in 2009 and 2007 and expect me to know where and what MESHBLD is.

I have no idea what to do with .e files either, nothing correctly converts those to the formats SS2 needs- or I need for that matter, unless I use Blender 2.79 to import a .e file converted to a .3ds file (since Blender 2.8+ no longer imports .3ds files) but those imports appear to be missing the joint planes needed for the games rigging, I could manually create them but then the only 2.79 add-on that supports exports to Dark Engine is a static .bin export, which obviously has trouble with rigged characters (rigged as far as Dark Engine is concerned anyway.)

So I'm a bit lost trying to replace the player models, I've spent two days trying to research everything I need but the information is very scattered, often out of date and conflicting.

If anyone has a solution I'm all ears.

So far I've read and tried:
• How to make new biped meshes for Dark Engine games about a thousand times, despite it being written in 2009.
• https://github.com/RSoul82/Blender-NewDark-Toolkit import and export add-on that apparently uses MeshBld.exe, but I had to go and install Thief 2 and force a directory just for this plugin to export anything properly and SS2 still crashed when I tested the resulting mesh.
• Endlessly scouring the forum for similar import-export problems.
• Successfully model-swapped using another in-game model, but no success using anything exported from Blender.

[6637578bdec95voodoo47]

yep, this is why only a couple of people are willing to work with the AI meshes,  @RocketMan and @Paynamia being one of the few.. two of the few?

[6637578bdf223RocketMan]

First, you need Free the Objects, which contains all the utilities needed to convert meshes back and forth:
https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=3092.0

Then you need to get your hands on a bipedal mesh that has limit planes and boxes.  Do you have Thief?  I believe either Thief or Thief II have the .e files for all the models on them.  I don't own either game myself so I'm going on hearsay.  If you don't have one I can give you Garrett. 

Once you get that far the process is essentially, run the .e file through the tools to get a 3ds file, delete the mesh but not the planes and boxes and then create your new mesh on top of that.  Re-save and run it through the tools to go from 3ds to .e to .bin.   The bin file is the final product that the game will recognize, provided you put it in the correct folder in the game.  Depending on how you have modded or not modded the game, it will go in a different location but for an unmodded game you can create a "mesh" folder in the game root with a "txt16" folder inside that for textures and that's enough.

Unfortunately I know absolutely nothing about blender so I can't advise at all on that.  I only use 3ds Max.

[6637578bdf3abZen]

This is perfect! Exactly what I was after- though it looks like Free the Objects is missing n3ds2e and BSP, which are needed to convert back from .3ds to .e and then to .bin and .cal, luckily I was able to find those on this https://thiefmissions.com/lpg/Tools.html

Unless I misread the readme's and BintoE also converts .e to .bin.

I had no idea about the mesh folder, that's a huge help as well!

[6637578be0172RocketMan]

though it looks like Free the Objects is missing n3ds2e and BSP, which are needed to convert back from .3ds to .e and then to .bin and .cal, luckily I was able to find those on this Thief modding site.

My memory must be faulty.  It's been a while but I thought everything was in 1 zip.  Maybe there's another package that has them all in 1 place or I did what you did and forgot having gone through the effort.

Oh.. and there's this, if you have the patience for low quality rambling.

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=9185

[6637578be051bZen]

RocketManHahah no worries, seems like a bit of a trial-and-error process- you mentioned you have a Garrett model that has all the correct planes? I wasn't able to find them in Thief 2's files but I'm about to poke around in Thief 1 and see.

[6637578be0622RocketMan]

I'll save you the trouble.
[garrett.e expired]

[6637578be07ffZen]

Alright so I've done a whole range of tests trying to find exactly where the fault is along this workflow.
I took the Garrett model you provided and pushed it through the converters on it's own, didn't edit the resulting .3ds file at all, then converted the .3ds file all the way back through to .bin and the player came out invisible.

I also did this with the model found in the Thief 2 mesh.crf
The process was
.bin -> .e -> .3ds -> .e -> .bin

Meanwhile if I edit the .3ds file even slightly, it results in SS2 crashing to desktop, no matter what kind of edits I make, even if I only export it back out without touching anything.

[6637578be0928RocketMan]

You can't start with a bin file and go backwards.  The planes and boxes are baked in when compiled into bin so trying to pull them back out won't work.  That's why you have to start with the .e.  Did you open the 3ds file generated from the .e provided?  Do you see garrett in your modelling program after eto3ds?

[6637578be0b86Zen]

RocketManYep! Garrett works fine as .3ds but still crashes SS2 when I convert him back down to .bin