That's problematic, because what if someone installs a mod that changes a weapon's icon? Then when you upgrade the weapon, the icon would revert to the vanilla version.

Have you played the RSD mod?

It literally does everything you're asking for, including making the broken laser pistol available earlier, and a whole lot more.

I thought we weren't to use the RSD mod with the new (beta 6) SCP mod, due to potential problems?

That is kind of my point. Standard Weapons are absurdly OP, and instead of being Jack of All Trades, Master of None, they're just kinda... the Master of All Trades (well, the Pistol and AR are, anyway, the Shotgun is balanced by being a mediocre weapon that is easy to get and has tons of ammo available for it alone). Heavy Weapons ain't too bad either.

If I were rebalancing the game, I'd definitely weaken the Pistol. If I were to do that, then the Laser Pistol would stand out more. Though I would still make it available earlier in the game without a Marine start.

Have you played the RSD mod?

It literally does everything you're asking for, including making the broken laser pistol available earlier, and a whole lot more.

Compared to the general utility of STD, everything is a niche weapon.

That is kind of my point. Standard Weapons are absurdly OP, and instead of being Jack of All Trades, Master of None, they're just kinda... the Master of All Trades (well, the Pistol and AR are, anyway, the Shotgun is balanced by being a mediocre weapon that is easy to get and has tons of ammo available for it alone). Heavy Weapons ain't too bad either.

If I were rebalancing the game, I'd definitely weaken the Pistol. If I were to do that, then the Laser Pistol would stand out more. Though I would still make it available earlier in the game without a Marine start.

as far as SCP is concerned, I do not see anything beyond potentially moving the jammed eng2 laspistol to the beginning of the level happening.

also no, the laspistol is not a niche weapon, it can be your main gun for a good chunk of the game without much trouble.

The laser pistol is not a niche weapon. It's very effective against mechanical and cyborg targets and has essentially infinite free ammo available.

So, that's part of what I left out when I rewrote the post. I'll go over it now.

The Laser Pistol is niche, because the regular Pistol exists. I just wrapped up an Impossible run where I killed SHODAN with Standard 4, Modify 2 Pistol (unmodded) in about 2-3 seconds (not counting the time spent throwing ICE Picks at her). It's arguably the best weapon in the game, if you factor in it's availability. All but OSA Agents get access to it for free. Ammo for it is plentiful. And there are so many pistols just lying around the game that you can easily just keep swapping out broken ones for working ones until you get to 3-4 Maintenance, in order to never have to buy Maintenance tools. What's more, it has access to Armor Piercing Rounds. These specialize in killing exactly the same targets as the Laser Pistol. While AP Rounds are limited in supply, the Pistol can fire in bursts, while the Laser Pistol is stuck on a long recharge cycle. The Pistol can tear through enemies MUCH faster. And early on in the game, you have a fairly generous supply of AP Ammo as long as you're conservative and save it for needed targets (Droids can take standard ammo, and midwives can take the wrench). If you get the Grenade Launcher (Marine Start or Repair 2), that's another weapon you've got for turrets and bots. While you don't get any early EMP Grenades (I think) the GL does enough damage that it fulfills the same niche of doing lots of damage to your toughest enemies.

So the Laser Pistol competes with the other two Tier 1 weapons you get against the hardest early game enemies, only really winning out in terms of 'free' ammo. However, the ammo isn't really free. Going through the Cargo Bays, a Bot took 80 energy out of my Laser Pistol. Turrets took 40. That's a bot and a turret, or three turrets for between 2 and 5 Maintenance. The ammo may be replaceable, but you're not running back and forth from the recharger that often. So if you want more frequent use, you need batteries or Electron Cascade. And at that point in the game, you probably aren't swimming in batteries, and Electron Cascade is out of reach for someone with poitns in Energy Weapons and Repair. Simply put, you still need to use melee, other weapons, or some rare 'ammo' to keep going. The Laser Pistol also has the worst DPS, and in an extended fight is much more reliant on cover than a Pistol with burst mode AP round, or a Grenade Launcher. Both of which are also pretty darn good at handling biological targets (though you're not realistically using grenades against hybrids and monkeys).

Now don't get me wrong. I really like the Laser Pistol. But it has some pretty serious competition in the 'killing early to mid-game robots' category. And so that's why I call it a niche weapon. It directly competes with the other Tier 1 weapons, and it's strongest claim to fame is it's ammo system. That's a niche. It's a good niche. It's a niche I like, but it's still a niche. Throw in the fact that Heavy and Standard Weapons will happily get you through the whole game on their own, while Energy Weapons has an entire level where it's utterly useless, and that doesn't help the case against being a niche weapon.

And so it just doesn't make sense that you get the Laser Pistol so late without the Marine Start, while the GL is available halfway through Med/Sci with Repair. For reference, once I got the Laser Pistol from Engineering working, I fought 3 turrets and 2 midwives before I got the working one. I could have skipped one turret and one midwife from the Engineering 'tunnel'. I could have skipped the two turrets guarding the recharger and OS station by running by them if I had to, and coming back later with the Laser Pistol. It's honestly not really worth getting Repair just for the Laser Pistol (though it IS worth getting repair for the EMP Rifle, given it's ridiculous Maintenance requirement, but oddly low Repair requirement), because there's so little you really get from it before you find the working one. If you want a lore appropriate place to stick a broken one, put it outside the armory (or behind the forcefield) in Med/Sci. And I'd leave a working one in the Cargo Bay areas outside the actual Cargo Bay, so you have it against the small army of droids, bots, and turrets.

But not against the three turrets guarding the entrance to the Cargo Bay, which are a nightmare for an OSA character that didn't dip into Pistols, or really anyone who ran out of AP ammo by then. I think that's a nice extra place to reward Repair users, in addition to it's various uses in Med/Sci.

yes, and the player can grab the first one pretty much right before eng2 is done, even though it would be extremely useful if available before the cargo bays are entered.

as long as the player has the repair skill, that is - I think I'll move it to one of the corpses in the Command Control room, or one of the crates in the Shuttle Bay, and include the change in the Repairman mod.

RSD adds it to Storage Room 4, which might be a good place for it since it's still somewhat out of the way if you're beelining through engineering.

The laser pistol is not a niche weapon. It's very effective against mechanical and cyborg targets and has essentially infinite free ammo available.

yes, and the player can grab the first one pretty much right before eng2 is done, even though it would be extremely useful if available before the cargo bays are entered.

as long as the player has the repair skill, that is - I think I'll move it to one of the corpses in the Command Control room, or one of the crates in the Shuttle Bay, and include the change in the Repairman mod.

I seem to remember the broken laser pistol being in cargo storage 4, meaning you can access it immediately upon entering engineering if you beeline towards it.

It might be an RSD change, though.

first working shotgun is on medsci2 in the secret area near Watts' office, next one is on medsci1 in the area with a charging station close to Watts.

I was thinking about moving the broken laspistol to the start of eng2, but ultimately decided against it. maybe I should rethink this. either way, minimodding this is trivial, so I'll do that tomorrow I guess.

I am taking repair, so I'll have the Engineering one shortly. And I agree that it's odd that a working shotgun is available halfway through Med/Sci when the broken laser pistol isn't available until halfway through Engineering. Especially since you get a broken Grenade Launcher before the Shotgun (Albeit, not by much), and I'd consider the GL much more powerful than the Laser Pistol (though very limited by ammo at that point). That's all I'm saying. I know you can get it earlier with Marine start, but I think a broken one should be available in Med/Sci just like the Grenade Launcher. It would also make repair a bit better when it's good for getting both of those weapons early.

I just don't think the Laser Pistol needs to be as progress gated as it is. Sure it has advantages over the toughest enemies at that point in the game, but so does AP Rounds in the Pistol. Yes, it's 'unlimited' ammo is a big strength, but I feel like investing in a weapon type to specialize in bot-fighting should be rewarded with being better than the pistol. That's all together enough that I think, design-wise, it should come sooner in the game. By contrast, if the point of Marine is to have access to early GL or LP, then I'd move back the broken Grenade Launcher (not a fan of this, but it's a thought to consider). And I was only thinking of all this since SCP decided to move OS4 and Worm Skin armor earlier into the game (Which I think are overall good ideas, even though I was never bothered with the late OS4). Without a Marine start, the Laser Pistol loses some of it's best spots to be really handy, just like it's hard to get excited about the Worm Skin armor for pretty much just The Body of the Many. Though obviously the LP having one option to be obtained early is a big difference.

Out of curiosity, if that Shotgun is broken, where's the first unbroken one for people not using Repair? I think there's a working one in the nacelles in Engineering? That would match up with the placement of the Laser Rapier, the 2nd Tier 2 weapon you get.

Do a Marine career and select +1 Energy Weapons, so you start with the laser pistol.

Oh I know about that, and I've done it before some times. But without that, you don't get a broken one until midway through Engineering, and a working one in Hydroponics. The working grenade launcher doesn't come any sooner, but a broken one is found halfway through Med/Sci. Basically the only reason I ever go for a Marine start over Navy or OSA is just because I want the Laser Pistol early.

And I'm a bit partial to the PSI/Energy build, so a Marine start is a bit awkward. Doing one with this patch (and some graphical ones) right now, mostly just running by every turret or bot I can, because I went OSA start, and whittling them down with Cryokinesis just ain't worth the effort. If there weren't enough AP Rounds on Med/Sci to be able to take down most (if not all) of the hard targets, I'd get the delay, but it just struck me as one of those little things that make the base game pistol feel so fantastic due to it's availability.

Not a big deal or anything, but with things being moved around sooner, I'd stick a broken Laser Pistol on Med/Sci (maybe next to the turret guarded charging machine to teach the players about how rechargers work for things besides mission objectives. Throws in an earlier reason to get Repair too) and a working one in place of the broken one on Engineering.

Ah well, kinda having fun running past all the turrets and bots while I work my way up to the broken one in Engineering. And I was going to pick up Repair to keep an EMP Rifle running without Maintenance 6 anyway.

If you're used to playing on Impossible and care about gameplay, balance, etc, you should wait for RSD to be updated, it changes a lot (including making the Grenade Launcher the second-tier weapon in Heavy and rebalancing it) and reverts many of SCP's more questionable gameplay changes (like the unpowered power armour protection). I don't know if @RoSoDude is going to update it anytime soon, though.

Laser Pistol always struck me as coming WAY too late given what it's for.

Do a Marine career and select +1 Energy Weapons, so you start with the laser pistol.

The grenade launcher never does "massive" damage. Most mid-tier and higher enemies require multiple grenades to kill unless you've taken every mod and upgrade available to increase its damage. In vanilla SS1 the un-modded grenade launcher is basically useless.

I can read the change log, but I'd have to read over the entire thing and changes to a weapon or skill might be in several different places

They aren't. All changes to weapons and OS upgrades are summarized in the "Weapon Changes" and "OS Upgrade Changes" sections of the readme.

some summaries are pretty vague (the AR being noted as made weaker, without any numbers)

All stat changes are noted explicitly. For example, the AR entry is:
Assault Rifle
- Repair skill minimum requirement decreased from 4 to 3.
- Degrade rate increased from 0.5 to 0.65.
- Base damage for all ammo types reduced from 10 to 8.

I saw that Grenade Launcher odd got buffed? Now it doesn't even need Modification 1 to do massive damage. I figure it'd have it's Modify 1 damage toned down to just 10%

Dude, have you even looked at the SCP documentation since Beta 5?
Grenade Launcher
- Fixed modification level 1 giving a 100% damage bonus. Now gives a 10% damage bonus,
  just like all the other weapons. To compensate for this, the base damage multiplier
  has been increased so the fully modded damage output is about the same as before.

Distinguishable Implants has been obsolete since SCP Beta 5.

This isn't entirely true, since Distinguishable Implants uses a different colour scheme from SCP, but for the average player they probably just want to use SCP.

Distinguishable Implants has been obsolete since SCP Beta 5.

OK, thanks. I will delete it.

Med 2 Forcefield Rehack very likely has been broken since SCP Beta 5.

OK, I will delete it, thanks.

What on god's green earth is "SCP b6 (NOT Secmod 3 compat)"?

Shock 2 Community Patch Beta 6. I thought all versions of SCP were incompatible with Secmod?

Also, just a reminder that you shouldn't ever use Randomiser - Full and Randomiser - Light at the same time, so you should probably delete one of them.

I know. I just installed them all, so if I wanted to use one of them (and only one at a time of course) then it was immediately available.

I think you're the only person on the planet who doesn't use the AIO version of Coloured Laser Rapiers

I will try the version you mention, thanks.

Distinguishable Implants has been obsolete since SCP Beta 5.

Med 2 Forcefield Rehack very likely has been broken since SCP Beta 5.

What on god's green earth is "SCP b6 (NOT Secmod 3 compat)"?

Are you calling forum posts "web pages"?

Yep, sorry for any confusion caused.

And are you seriously suggesting that people delete the dev threads from Engineering when a project is released as a completed mod?

I just thought the older threads might prove confusing sometimes. If not, then great.

There is no brilliant choice. In vanilla Shock that message had multiple triggers. In SCP one of the vanilla triggers was removed and the other vanilla trigger was left unchanged.

no more poetry while being cooked.

I guess the poetry reading was cancelled

There was something else I noticed. It's not as big as the music triggers, but it cought my attention nonetheless. In system admin in Ops B there is a pit with a ladder and some nanites and cyber modules at the bottom, as you enter the pit damaging gas or steam is released and Xerxes makes an announcement about poety readings. Interestingly, the Xerxes announcement didnt play in my latest playthrough, and I stayed down there and moved around a bit, but it wouldn't play.

it took me a while to find it. so not very many, probably.