System Shock 1, or System Shock 2?

[66470962c6731JDoran]

Which System Shock game do you prefer? System Shock 1 (regardless of what 'build' of SS1 you prefer, be it the DOS version, the Enhanced Edition, or System Shock Remake, etc), or System Shock 2?

Definitely the second game for me. I really like System Shock 1, but I think I might like it more if I had played it back in the mid-90s, when  it was new and innovative. I'm not sure when I first played it, and I probably played SS2 first (I played SS2 when it first game out, in 1999 or so, and loved it), though I think I might have a memory of trying to get a friend's PC to run his newly bought CD-ROM version of System Shock back in the mid 1990s, but I might be misremembering that - plus if that memory is true then why didn't I play the game long enough to draw the easy conclusion that I would want to further play the game on my own PC? Certainly I first took real notice of System Shock 1 when I found this website with the downloadable, pre-packaged System Shock Portable (thanks to all involved for SSP, it helped introduce me to this great game, and made it easier to run, and more enjoyable to play than if I'd had to paly the base CD-ROM drive).

But System Shock 2 is just super to me (I can't remember now what changed SCP makes, nor what problems it would have had when it first came out but that have been fixed by ZB/Voodoo/Kolya/etc (again, thanks everyone), and I can't remember what problems I, as a non-RPG player, would have had then with the confusing (to me, at least) ability statistics and the concept of not being able to beat some enemies until I had put points into the right abilities and weapon upgrades (as opposed to traditional first person shooter games, whereby you almost never encountered a powerful enemy until you had either found the right weapon to kill that enemy, or at least had a way to avoid the enemy altogether. SS2 is in my top ten games ever list, it does so much right, and I'm still hoping we'd get a properly comparable new game of it's type. By far the closest is Prey 2017, but System Shock 2 is still better overall, I believe.

So, System Shock 2 for me.

Actually, another question, what is your favourite 'Emergent sim' (I still wish we had a better genre name)? For me it's Deus Ex, the original 2000 game. But SS2 is probably my second favorite.

[66470962c6a8asarge945]

System Shock 2 is the better game, largely thanks to mods. Both games have significant issues with balance (laser rapier in SS1, most builds other than standard in SS2), but in SS2 these are fixable. I also really like the levelling system, I feel it's a better fit than the item-progression style of SS1. However, SS1 has a more structurally intact story and a more interesting setting. SHODAN is also much, much better in SS1.

I can't really decide which I prefer. Probably SS2 as I have played a lot more of it.

I'd still happily play both of them over Bioshock, though.

SS2 is my favorite imsim. Deus Ex is too broken to be on my list.

[66470962c6cf5Joe]

In the past, I would've said SS2, but after playing the SS1 remake, I'm not so sure anymore.

I enjoyed the remake a fuckin lot. Waaay more than I thought I would. Perhaps it's because it was a more novel experience; I've beaten/played SS2 so many times by now. If it took hundreds of dollars to play a SS2 remake from Nightdive in the vein of SS1, I would pay it.

Some negatives to the remake: I have to say that cyberspace in the remake sucks quite badly at various points and there were times when I was absolutely seething and raging while doing them. Certain cyberspace terminals are just silly with their design, filling tiny rooms with little green flappy fuckers that melt you in less than a second. Next, there are certain boss setpieces like Cortex Reavers being fought in tiny rooms with destructible cover that made me want to break things. Then, there are utterly infuriating enemies like the Alpha Strain and Virus mutants that act like the T-800 and never give up the hunt while bombarding you with mini-nukes.

But overall, it was a very, very fun time. Overall, I think I'd still probably pick SS2, but it's so close.

[66470962c7667RoSoDude]

I prefer System Shock 2, though my feelings on it are greatly complicated by having spent so much time modding it over the last 3.5 years. The first System Shock is a masterpiece, and most of its flaws having nothing to do with its age (the controls and interface are just fine) and everything to do with it being chock full of innovative ideas that didn't get completely realized. I greatly disliked the near-finished demos I played of the Remake, so I will probably never play that.

Strengths of System Shock:

• Complex and intricate level design that demands a lot from the player to explore and navigate
• Tactile user interface that rewards mastery and admits a bit of player customization
• Physics-based player movement model that grants the player expressive control over their character posture
• Weapon damage model with armor penetration and critical chance is really robust and intuitive
• 16 different weapons with their own properties, settings, and ammo types, leading to a satisfying power progression and playstyle flexibility
• Cyber augmentations found and upgraded via exploration in Metroidvania-style progression
• Cool quirky stuff like the patches having side effects and the rearview mirror augmentation are super endearing
• Wire and grid puzzles are nicely designed, sometimes combined with time pressure to really test the player
• SHODAN is absolutely menacing in gameplay with her ambushes and traps, as well as in her fantastic vocal performance
• Fantastic visuals, the environment art and enemy designs are classic pulpy cyberpunk + body horror
  
• 7-hour time limit on Mission difficulty 3 is diabolical, the tension in having to optimize your route through the station is wonderful and insane

Weaknesses of System Shock:

• Enemy AI is dumb as rocks, and lacking in differentiation. Most enemies are walking hitscan turrets
• Somewhat lackluster balance of weapons and tools. Weapons like the riot gun and stun gun are absolutely useless, while the laser rapier twoshots any enemy
• Resource overabundance, it's nearly impossible to run out of ammo and finding caches of bullets and grenades is rarely exciting
• Cyberspace is awful, the audiovisual feedback is piss poor and the 6DOF shooter gameplay is woefully basic
• Some levels are probably a little too mazelike for their own good, like the tunnels of the Engineering level
• The radiation SFX probably gave me permanent hearing damage

Strengths of System Shock 2:

• Brings back the RPG elements from Ultima Underworld to the Immersive Sim and with great success, build choices are both strategic and expressive
• Lots of ways to play the game, from running and gunning to sneaking and hacking to stunning and blasting enemies with your mind magic
• Level design is tight and refined, top notch dungeon crawling with scripted encounters, dynamic enemy ambushes, tricks and traps, and exciting loot. Rickenbacker and Body of the Many are also great in providing some much needed combat challenge and faster paced gameplay as the game comes to a close
• Resource management is actually impactful, the game is relatively hardcore with its item scarcity and enemies hit hard
• Grid inventory adds a lot of depth to equipment selection, user interface is snappy and slick
• Nice selection of weapons, equipment, and abilities the player can acquire, from ballistic weapons to sci-fi blasters to grenade launchers and alien contraptions
• Enemy AI is competent and displays a lot of diverse behaviors that give each enemy a unique personality and threat
• Combat mechanics are tactical and frenetic, the gunplay is a little odd but there's depth to the movement, melee, and shooting
• Superb atmosphere; the Von Braun is cold, clean, and creepy, and the Dark Engine's audio systems are put to great use
• The twist on the Shock story formula is engaging and follows logically from the first game (despite the 12 lightyear distance plot hole); The Many are terrific villains and the tenuous partnership you forge with SHODAN is very entertaining
• Top notch DnB/dark ambient soundtrack, despite what some idiots say

Weaknesses of System Shock 2:

• Highly questionable balance of character stats, skills, weapons and abilities. Exploits are obvious after a single playthrough but trap options can disappoint first timers
• Underbaked systems like weapon modification and underutilized skills make some character concepts feel incomplete
• Enemy AI has some notable flaws that allow the player to cheese them with a little practice
• Difficulty spikes at the Cargo Bay and quickly tapers off, failing to match the player's pace of character progression
• Where Am I? is a boring nostalgia sequence with barely any gameplay to speak of, and the two final bosses are disappointingly easy
• Story quickly goes off the rails into self-parody, sequel bait ending gag really stings 14 years later
• Blocky object models and subpar visual effects stop the game from having truly great aesthetic design

[66470962c785ficemann]

SS2 for me as I got a lot more hooked into it, plus 2 was the one that made me want to seek out the community for it, as Doom 2 had for me with the Doom community.

I absolutely love SS1's cyberpunk setting and style, but 2 has the better gameplay + the story stuff of peoples struggles within themselves over individualism vs collective. 2 also takes some queues from the movie "The Thing" with themes of paranoia in not knowing who is and isn't infected. For the some of it's parts 2 is where it's at. I'll forever love the first game though for it's own unique strengths.

[66470962c79e0Hikari]

I keep wanting to like SS1.

Yet I keep coming back to SS2. 

Hard for me to articulate without feeling like i'm glossing over something.

[66470962c7b86voodoo47]

that actually is a pretty good way of discerning whether you like one game more than the other - if you play one, and it makes you want to play the other in the end, then you like the other better.

this is close to how I think of the games.

[66470962c7e6efox]

SS1 is one of the games that I played on my very first own PC around the time it was released. I also played Ultima Underworld 1 and 2, as well as Ultima VII (starting with Serpent Isle) on that thing. Not sure in what order I played those exactly but it overall left a huge impression on my young mind for sure, saying that I felt immersed would be an understatement.

I came around to playing SS2 a little late, since it was released during a phase where I wasn't gaming much due to lots of other stuff going on in my life during that time and stopped reading gaming magazines too. It was actually a childhood friend, who pointed me into its direction during a chance encounter on a train ride. I had lost contact with him years ago. He was present during some of those early SS1 sessions and, coming from a home that tried really hard to keep him away from all electronic media, he also came away very deeply impressed by it naturally. He was raving about SS2 and practically demanded that I should check it out asap. Needless to say that I absolutely loved SS2, too. It clearly is the much better game but playing the first at the time we did, and before the second was released, it was a such a powerful experience, that overall it is kind of a tie between them for me personally.

Shortly after SS2, I also played Deus Ex and Thief for the first time. DX instantly became and remains my absolute favorite game in that lineage.

I have yet to play through the SS1 Remake. Bought it a while ago and played for an hour or so. It's alright and much better than originally anticipated but I was never feeling a real need for it. Maybe out of fear that it muddles with the memories of playing the original, maybe just because I prefer getting fresh stories. Not sure, really but I was hoping for SS3 more.

[66470962c81d6Xkilljoy98]

I like both, but I prefer SS1 a lot more. I just enjoy the gameplay being less stressful and easy to mess up. Music is great all around, even if some tracks are reused. Story is simple but effective. Each level also feels unique in its own way. I also did really like Cyberspace.

SS2 is good and has good atmosphere, though I find it's horror isn't too strong as some say, at least IMO. Gameplay wise it can be stressful and sometimes you have little of what you need, some like that, myself I find it more stressful than fun. Music is good though some is better than others and it doesn't always play.  Each level also feels unique in its own way. Story is good, but something about the 1st game I prefer. It's fine but it doesn't blow me away or anything. Plus the twist is heavily hinted at so it isn't really that effective imo. I also did miss Cyberspace.

I also love the Bioshock games too, but that is a different topic.