System Shock 1 is good but easy

[6649894a0686cvorob]

I’m currently playing this wonderful game. Really impressed how good it is, despite age (never played it before). Its complex, from one side, and clear, from another. I never had problem with understanding how it works and what i’m supposed to do. But, still, there are things which worries me.

SShock 1 has so much variety with plugins, with all these Sensaround Multi-View Unit, Energy/Projectile Shield and etc, but I don’t see any necessity in them.  This game is very easy.

FYI, i’m playing on 2-2-2-2 difficulty with mouselook patch, in dosbox 0.74 (portable version from systemshock.org). Currently i'm on level 6, solving problem with virus.

After you find restoration chamber on level (and usually its not far from elevator) you have NO PROBLEM on this level. You die? Lol, no penalty, just resurrect and beat them up. But its hard to die in this game. Since i look into every crate, body and corner i have tons of ammo, medkits and etc (and i’m playing without solution) so i’m all the time with maximum health and have my loaded AM-27 Flechette / Magnum 2100 Pistol and few Concussion Bombs. Also, almost 60% of all encounters ends with me just leaning from corner and firing into visible part of enemy, in 80% cases they won’t even bother to run for me.

I usually die when i’m in some room and SHODAN suddenly opens trim panels and lots of enemy fire at me. But its a rare scenario.

If we recall SS2 enemies, they were running for you, all of them, they opened doors and etc, while in SS1 they usually stand still and fire when you are just standing in front of them, what you won’t do

Maybe its dosbox and its cycles (http://www.gog.com/forum/general/dosbox_how_it_works/page1), reason why enemy usually don't chase me. Maybe this game wasn’t designed for mouse look, which makes my reaction much faster... I don’t know, need your thoughts.

[6649894a06a3bvorob]

Our first battle with this f**k, remember it? Its just small room where this thing is sitting, few shots from corner + concussion bomb and its dead. And thats it???

[6649894a06be3Kolya]

Yeah, enemies are a lot easier with mouselook.
Try setting the game parameters at the start to the right. I'd be surprised if you still think it's too easy.

[6649894a06cdavorob]

Well, i'm just one point away from maximum, you think it will be noticeable?

[6649894a06dbeKolya]

One point can mean time limit or not.

[6649894a074ccMarvin]

[...] This game is very easy.

FYI, i’m playing on 2-2-2-2 difficulty with mouselook patch, in dosbox 0.74 (portable version from systemshock.org). Currently i'm on level 6, solving problem with virus.

"I'm using a mod which makes the game much easier and don't play on the highest difficulty setting. Conclusion: This game is too easy"

wat

[6649894a0761aKolya]

The main point making the game easier is certainly mouselook mod. But what should follow from that? Fighting the controls isn't fun and doesn't enhance the game in any way. So I wouldn't recommend to go back to keyboard control to experience a "harder" game.
Just try to keep in mind that people who referred to System Shock in the past as a hard and difficult game did have a very different experience than you do. So there's no need for this "LOL! Too easy!"-attitude. You're not that good. You're just playing an enhanced and easier game. Enjoy.

[6649894a07792Judicator]

You SHOULD play it with the orignal controls: mouse or mouse and keyboard. Mouselook is great and thanks to the guys who made SSP we can play the game wihout hassels. BUT if you want to play the game in a way that is closer to the original experience you SHOULD play it as I said before, just think to the platform parts of the game.

A lot of people bash the orginal controls and I can understand it since the game gets a bit tricky, but, you get used to them soon and then you find yourself moving like a snake through the corridors of the Station. 

I think that if you choose to take up the challenge of the developers you should play the game as it was intended to.

[6649894a07880OmegaDEATH]

It's a lot harder with the old controls.

[6649894a07984vorob]

Original control scheme won't force enemies to chase me, and won't prevent me from leaning from corners and killing them by firing into visible parts. It will just make me mad and waste more time.

[6649894a07b2bZylonBane]

So you WANT it to be too easy. Admit this and get on with life.

SS1 is designed around the original, slow, awkward control scheme. It assumes the player cannot turn quickly and accurately. That is why (most) enemies don't chase you. That is why the rear-view vision upgrade exists. Playing SS1 with mouselook is like playing as some sort of superhero who can move faster than everything around him.

[6649894a07cfeJoin2]

It's a problem in Ultima Underworld also: the AI do not give chase.
Don't forget this was 1992/4. the earliest fully 3D games (minus the sprites for objects). Programming AI in a fully 3D world is difficult. Pathfinding and other AI issues are still a thing today.
Back then AI consisted of very simple randomly generated attack patterns or more commonly AI move from the right of the screen to the left occasionally shooting. Looping. 
...OK that is a bit of an insult to programmers of the past, things were sometimes more complex, but what I'm saying is you should expect imperfections from early 3D games, even those by Looking Glass.

Mind you Doom managed it surprisingly convincingly, but Doom didn't have as broad a scope.

[6649894a080dfZylonBane]

what I'm saying is you should expect imperfections from early 3D games, even those by Looking Glass.

Or, you should expect that they knew exactly what they were doing, given that if the enemies in SS1 chased you like the enemies in SS2, any player stuck with the original control scheme would die, and die, and die, and quit.

Some enemies in SS1 *do* chase the player. They just don't do it very fast. And, they're probably assigned patrol areas that they're confined to, so a player wouldn't be able to run through an entire level and get an army of monsters chasing him, dragging the frame rate into the ground.

[6649894a08208Join2]

No. If this is the case then this could have been an opportunity to make use of the tiered difficulty system. 3 or 4 in combat= more enemies give chase and over greater distances.
Anyway, it's not so much a problem in SS, but in Ultima Underworld it certainly was. Most AI did not chase and those that did didn't get very far.

[6649894a0848cZylonBane]

No.

No what?

[6649894a087aeJoin2]

dragging the frame rate into the ground.

Is this a certainty or did you pull that out of your bottom?
Also I wasn't quite suggesting they hunt across the whole level.
You could also clamp the number of  AI that can give chase. If a new one is to join the chase then perform a radius check and the furthest one away if greater than x gives up the chase.

Stop making excuses.

[6649894a088c0Kolya]

- Hector's defence of Troy was clearly imperfect! By using Kalashnikovs the Trojans could have easily won the war!

- Nonsense, they wouldn't have known how to use them and most likely have killed themselves!

- Excuses!

[6649894a08b4dZylonBane]

Stop making excuses.

Excuses for what, exactly?

[6649894a08cb8OmegaDEATH]

ok.. lets go back a few years.... when code had to be written efficiently and 66MHz CPU's were all the rage.
Hell even the renderer suffered.

AI today is hell. F.E.A.R for example originally could only handle 3 AI objects at a time

:edit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTGGrZLT0JU
This is what non emulated software rendering gets you on a 3.3GHz machine...
Sad really...

[6649894a090e3Judicator]

ok.. lets go back a few years.... when code had to be written efficiently and 66MHz CPU's were all the rage.
Hell even the renderer suffered.

AI today is hell. F.E.A.R for example originally could only handle 3 AI objects at a time

:edit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTGGrZLT0JU
This is what non emulated software rendering gets you on a 3.3GHz machine...
Sad really...

Yeah I was about to write it: back in the days you needed a beefed up PC to run SS and IIRC they went for bitmap enemies because simply there wasn't enough power there to manage 3D ones.

Honestly the non chasing AI is not a valid point: it is a design feature/flaw, the game is like it is, for the good or for the bad.
The point is that using mouselook is like cheating and "It will just make me mad and waste more time" is just pointless: you are playing a game in a way it wasn't designed to and you complain about it?
I bet that if you hook up mouse and keyboard to a PS3 you will have a easier life in single and multiplayer games.

[6649894a091edOmegaDEATH]

Yeah even today's build of dosbox emulates are mere +-55MHz averagely....
On a bloody 6 core 3.3GHz Machine...

My dual core 2.2Ghz android could muster a mere 33MHz x86 dos emulation... so sad.. it was stolen

[6649894a092efvorob]

Well guys, thanks for your feedback, my game vision changed I will definitely replay it in future, and will use original controls and higher difficulty.

[6649894a093d7vorob]

BTW, i just completed level 7 and that was REAL THING I was dying, literally, in every corridor, in every room...

[6649894a09896Drone-Dragon]

Well guys, thanks for your feedback, my game vision changed I will definitely replay it in future, and will use original controls and higher difficulty.

BTW, i just completed level 7 and that was REAL THING I was dying, literally, in every corridor, in every room...

Basically to get the best challenge without feeling rushed and missing things...use the original controls without mouselook, set everything in the game settings to level 3 EXCEPT the story/plot setting which I believe gives the game about a 7 hour time limit before you lose when set to 3. You can always set that up to 3 on another playthrough. Just put it on 2.

Unless I've confused it with the difficulty setting...but I'm pretty sure it was the plot/story setting...

...I'm feeling old.