SS2 System Shock Infinite 2.4

[664228073fd21xdiesp]

Have you found what sort of refresh it needs?(FMSel refresh from the selection screen did no difference...)

*Maybe* it was setting the FM archive folder a second time.

[664228073fe2dbluemess]

Delete fmsel.ini.

[66422807400a5JackTheHacker]

Delete fmsel.ini.

Thanks! This worked (turns out I needed to cancel when the "archive path" popup showed up)

[66422807402b7xdiesp]

unn_atropos: the portable forcefield emitters, destructible doors and barricades are the remnants of 1) a second class system that would have you break down the ship in different ways, just like with the monsters and 2) navigation puzzles in the style of Portal.

To better understand, portable forcefield emitters were actually stasis generators whose barrier required the current secondary fire mode (the one which hurts a heavy target in stasis) while normal doors required grenades. You can see hints of a puzzle in the MedSci1 dungeon with the turrets, which can be accessed by the little room with the 2 security boxes: a forcefield used to prevent entry from the ladder.

Early playtesters found it excessive, so the system was simplified. Breaking down barricades isn't a requirement anymore, but is used to get loot and one of the old rigs; forcefields are less, and only two might force you to backtrack if you don't have Marie: Break Security yet.

edit
Reuploaded.

[6642280740456bluemess]

If for some unholy reason you refrain from using FMSel, you don't mind messing with your install, and want cutscenes to work, edit install.cfg file, add .\DataPermMods\cutscenes+ to the beginning of movie_path parameter. E.g. if it looks like this:

Code: [Select]

movie_path .\cutscenes+.\Data\cutscenes
Change it to this:

Code: [Select]

movie_path .\DataPermMods\cutscenes+.\cutscenes+.\Data\cutscenes

Don't need to do that if you have GOG version and you didn't use SS2Tool.

[66422807408efJoin2]

OK, played to Engineering cargo holds.

The good: Writing, Storytelling & voice acting. Delacroix > Elizabeth for many reasons: storytelling techniques, not taking control from the player without good reason, has an excuse for not being killable, stays in character, and doesn't throw ammo at you every 5 seconds. 

The neutral: Level design changes are OK, aside from overly generous placement of resources regardless of difficulty. Ultimately it's still just vanilla SS2 level design and progression. I expected more from this aspect, the opportunity was there for some changes that keep me wanting to see more, but I am not sure it's fair to want more here. All in all, aside from the item placement I cannot really complain, there was nothing that made me say WTF by design, some changes I quite liked.

The ugly: Gameplay is needlessly butchered and is nonsensical to say the least. Why make a FM/Gameplay & story mod "accessible"? SS2 of all games. The majority of your audience do not demand such design. You forced this simplification on the player to boot, there are no options. I cannot understand why you would make such changes for the sake of accessibility, yet leave SS2's most inaccessible aspects intact: the interface, inventory and RPG elements (need x to use y for everything including weapons).
Hybrids are immune to grenades in the face, and other such questionable changes that strongly encourage you to build a jack of all trades, master of none character, though judging by the amount of CM's handed out you will be a master of everything by the end, which is RPG design I strongly detest.
And New Game+, Seriously?

Thankfully something was left mostly intact: Simulation design. Only the tutorial pop-ups and the Marie models' lack of animations and other expected behaviour such as turning to face the player when talking are a problem. Oh, and the previously mentioned grenade-immune hybrids.     

Granted, I haven't played the rest and refuse to continue, so feel free to tell me my opinion sucks. And I apologize, but I have to be honest. I can only hope I have been fair with my criticism, but I feel guilty as sin.
I am forgetting this is the mods first release also, and given time it could be a great mod, just not one I'd want to play, a bit too Bioshock-y for my tastes

This is no hardcore mod

Being able to aim for myself or explore the environment without everything being pointed out to me across the room (even through walls) is not "hardcore", it should be standard design for any game with guns and a heavy focus on exploration and interaction.
I thought modern designers made such decisions for money, not because they genuinely believe it to be good design. You proved me wrong

[6642280740d66xdiesp]

edit install.cfg file, add .\DataPermMods\cutscenes+ to the beginning of movie_path parameter. E.g. if it looks like this:

Code: [Select]

movie_path .\cutscenes+.\Data\cutscenes
Change it to this:

Code: [Select]

movie_path .\DataPermMods\cutscenes+.\cutscenes+.\Data\cutscenes

Thank you very much for your suggestions! Ok, let's recap: if you have the GOG version, movies work even without FMsel; if you don't, it's either FMsel or this new procedure right? Sorry to sound a bit thick... I just have to update the installation instructions.

Join usss!: short answer, you are just on level 2 of 10. Long answer, there's even a FAQ about it: we all have the mental conditioning that if we can kill an enemy good, we feel headed for the final level - but with the new ruleset, you'd be royally screwed if you engaged level 6 mobs (Command) with level 2 resources (Engineering). Just ask me if I know what's going on, before going needlessly ballistic: I even felt the same about Standard targets not eating Heavy attacks, and that's why we worked so hard to integrate gameplay and story.

The goal of level 2 is:
- the very first difficulty increase (-20% damage taken from level 1 weapons);
- focusing on Energy and PSI targets;
- creative uses of Marie: Escape Route and Marie: Distract Target;
- the tutorial tear in protoreality.

Then Level 3 will introduce two new enemy classes, which obviously demand more skills investment. But if you feel too powerful a Level 2 hero to progress any further, it's good for me.

[6642280740f19Kolya]

I only made it to medsci 2 so far but this has been great. You're actually making me see and play SS2 in a different way, that's awesome. Marie's French is like a Subway baguette but that's SS2 tradition. Looking forward to see more.

[6642280741448xdiesp]

Added a small patch to fix a typo (in Engi2) and the timing of one Marie (in Medsci2).
Link here and in the first post: https://www.mediafire.com/?17hoded33yx1lk3

In case anyone wondered, the prologue is the first part of Ken Levine's SS2 fanfiction as narrated by ShephardReborn: it is completely optional*, but I liked that it introduced the characters of Marie, Sarah and Anatoly who all feature in the mod.
*15 minutes of the Sarah clock will hypnotize you

I only made it to medsci 2 so far but this has been great. You're actually making me see and play SS2 in a different way, that's awesome. Marie's French is like a Subway baguette but that's SS2 tradition. Looking forward to see more.

Something I love, is when an actor identifies with a character. Like reading an interview from the 70s, with the cast of Star Wars, and seeing that Alec Guinness is indeed an elite lord compared to country boy Mark Hamill, and suave Harrison Ford gets a snarky comment from Carrie Fisher. Well at one point in the recordings, ShephardReborn called her "Mary" and I absolutely kept it, because I completely envision Goggles botching any french.

This is a bigger pic of the updated fx of "Marie: Healing Aura". Marie casts rejuvenation! There is like a dozen animation cycles for Maries, the most common being talking and typing. A few are just idle, and I keep them not to make her appear like some keyboard maniac. The one thing I'm not happy about, is that Marie Distract Target stands idle until she sees an enemy. <-- any help with this will be richly rewarded

[664228074184dbluemess]

Thank you very much for your suggestions! Ok, let's recap: if you have the GOG version, movies work even without FMsel; if you don't, it's either FMsel or this new procedure right? Sorry to sound a bit thick... I just have to update the installation instructions.

I did some checking, and this turns out to be true only for the particular case when using an old GOG version (before they back away from making the game mod ready), and when not using SS2Tool. Otherwise, movies will not work with DataPermMods, unless you edit install.cfg to make them work.

Anyhow, this is not really a standard way of installing FMs, and it has some drawbacks. I would refrain from recommending it in installation instructions, when there's a dedicated built in tool for that (OOTB: movies work, saves don't overlap, you don't bust DataPermMods folder)

[6642280741c4bxdiesp]

I did some checking, and this turns out to be true only for the particular case when using an old GOG version (before they back away from making the game mod ready), and when not using SS2Tool. Otherwise, movies will not work with DataPermMods, unless you edit install.cfg to make them work.

Anyhow, this is not really a standard way of installing FMs, and it has some drawbacks. I would refrain from recommending it in installation instructions, when there's a dedicated build in tool for that (OOTB: movies work, saves don't overlap, you don't bust DataPermMods folder)

Eh. I don't know how to write an installation guide for FMsel, I'll have to scavenge it somewhere.

[6642280741d98bluemess]

I don't think you should craft your own guide. Many mods have their own guides that became obsolete and introduce confusion. Some short general guide how to handle FMs that you could refer to seems to be needed. Something like QUICK GUIDE sticky on mod threads, but for FMs.

[66422807420a1JackTheHacker]

Many mods have their own guides that became obsolete and introduce confusion.

Some short general guide how to handle FMs that you could refer to seems to be needed. Something like QUICK GUIDE sticky on mod threads, but for FMs.

Couldn't agree more, the first time I tried installing an FM, I messed up my install and had to open some stupid threads after failing to find even the tiniest guide about how to use FMSel and/or how to play FMs. A guide is needed for people newly delving into the world of FM's.

[6642280742219xdiesp]

ShephardReborn found another typo, which has been corrected in the updated patch.

I have added a link to this short teaser trailer to the first post. Until it A) gets deleted and B) it is possible to embed it.

Teaser: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1c15a7_system-shock-infinite_videogames

[664228074270cZygo]

Couldn't agree more, the first time I tried installing an FM, I messed up my install and had to open some stupid threads after failing to find even the tiniest guide about how to use FMSel and/or how to play FMs. A guide is needed for people newly delving into the world of FM's.

There's a pdf file called "FMSel.pdf" in the \doc folder of a new dark installation which has all the instructions necessary, to whit:

To get the game to run FMSel when it starts, you have to edit cam_mod.ini and uncomment (remove the semi-colon) the line “;fm”.
Change
; always start the FM Selector (if one is present)
;fm
to
; always start the FM Selector (if one is present)
fm
This will launch FMSel first when you run the game, and give you the option to select an FM or start the game without an FM.
The default FM path is a directory named FMs in the game directory. For example if the game is installed in C:\Thief2 then you have to create a
directory C:\Thief2\FMs. The FM path can be customized in cam_mod.ini with the fm_path config var, and can be an absolute path to an entirely
different location from where the game is installed.
You are now ready, just run the game and FMSel will start.
When FMSel starts it will scan the FM path for sub-directories and treat them as FMs. Additionally to the readily available FMs it finds in the FM path, it
also supports working with archived (zip/rar/7z) FMs. To enable archive support you need to configure an archive path, a directory which is different
from the FM path, where you store your collection of FM archives. FMSel will scan the archive path recursively, so the archives may be organized in
sub-directories. The archive path is configured in the options menu (see Actions under the MAIN WINDOW chapter).
To play an archived FM it has to be installed first. Installing consists of FMSel extracting the archive into a sub-directory of the FM path. Uninstalling it,
deletes the directory again. Install/Uninstall is done from the context menu in the FM list.
Deleting an FM archive, or the FM dir for a non-archived one, will usually not remove the FM entry from FMSel's database. This ensures that your play
history is preserved, without requiring you to keep the FM on your system.
NOTE: Avoid renaming FM archives after they have been added to FMSel. This will confuse it and usually produce duplicate entries, where the entry
for the old archive name will appear as a deleted FM.

There's a lot more than just that, pics of the interface and such. Might be worth doing an online copy of it with SS2 rather than Thief refs?

[6642280742890xdiesp]

I could very well replace the entire installation instructions with "Install with FMsel", but people who are only familiar with SHTUP and graphics mods are pretty much in the dark about it (like me!). I guess I'll have to read the guide Zygo linked, then make a version-by-version guide which summed up would be: "if you have X version, use FMsel like this or bla bla", "if you have Y version, use FMsel like that or bla bla"

On a side note, I'll have to buy the Steam version to see the installation issues myself. Team members have it, but I had missed the sale.

edit
SS2 is on sale on GOG for 1.5$: they say it's a Valentine's Day special, and by that they mean Marie.

[66422807429e4bluemess]

@xdiesp: you're blowing it out of proportion. You don't need Steam release, as it's essentially identical to GOG one. Use of FMSel is exactly the same with every version (including SS2Tool).

FMSel use is not that complicated, you can explain it in a few words, and refer that pdf for details.

// one difference with steam release is that you can choose to start with FMSel when launching via Steam, without the need to edit cam_mod.ini

[6642280742be8xdiesp]

Thanks. Do you think these installation instructions would be ok?

Use FMSel to uncompress the System Shock Infinite archive and later update your
installation with the latest patch. If you don't know how to use FMSel, read below.

"FMSel" is an utility included in both the GOG and Steam versions of the game, and is
the easiest way to play Fan Missions like this one. To get FMSel to run when System Shock 2
starts, enter the root folder of the game and edit the "cam_mod.ini" file as follows:

Find this text:
; always start the FM Selector (if one is present)
;fm

Remove the semicolon:
; always start the FM Selector (if one is present)
fm

FMSel is now scheduled to run together with System Shock 2. Start the game
and FMSel will ask you about creating the \FMs\ folder: answer "yes".

You can now extract the mod's archive into the \FMs\System Shock Infinite 1.1\ folder.
Update it to the latest version, by extracting and overwriting our patch in the same folder.
The next time you run the game, you will be able to select and play System Shock Infinite.

[6642280742cfbZygo]

While it's sensible to mention the Steam and GOG versions specifically the instructions ought to be applicable to any new dark version of SS2 including that sold at other DD vendors such as Gamersgate, and upgraded retail versions. Saying that may save some problems with people who have those versions not being sure if the instructions apply to them.

[6642280742f5axdiesp]

Yes, will do now. Thanks bluemess and Zygo as always. I'm changing the installation instructions as follows, I hope they are a bit more decent.

If you are familiar with FMSel, just unpack the System Shock Infinite archive and
update your installation with the latest patch.

If you are new to FMSel, here's how to use it. FMSel is an utility bundled with the game,
used to play Fan Missions such as this one. To get FMSel to run when System Shock 2
starts, enter the root folder of the game and edit "cam_mod.ini". Change this line:

Code: [Select]

;fm
To this:

Code: [Select]

fm
Start the game and FMSel will ask you about creating the \FMs\ directory: select "yes".
You should now extract the mod's archive into its own folder in the \FMs\ directory.
Extract the latest patch in the same folder, to update it to the latest version.
Run Shock2.exe again and launch System Shock Infinite.

[6642280743312Haios]

I've gotten down to deck 4 and so far I can say that I'm invested into the story and characters. But I really have to agree with a lot of what Join usss! has been saying. I'll try to soldier on regardless.

Some major things that annoy me so far...
Complete immunity to other damage types means engineering was particularly hard due to the amount of robotic enemies and changes to rechargers. Engineering could have been better if the weapon placement was earlier.
Did Psi-pull get removed? I could not grab a few items up high because of that.
Auto-Aim is really getting on my nerves. There were many situations where I wanted to shoot a camera out, but it would instead target a robot or turret. Picking up ground items is also much more difficult if you happen to kill something near it. Most fps's these days that eliminate your crosshair will at least give you ironsights for precision shots.
Inventory is now a complete mess because of all the weapons and ammo I need to carry. Cycling through them to the right one is also hard when under pressure. The UI was never meant for quick swapping and it shows when its demanded. I am currently carrying... 10 weapons which all seem to be required.
Diminishing returns are quite a bit more than diminishing. I found a level 4 grub that was completely immune to my overhead smashes. Am I supposed to be discarding all of my level 1 weaponry the moment I get something level 3? My ammunition count doesn't really support that.
Armor doesn't seem like it has much effect. For whatever reason, my medium armor still lets me take a considerable beating whenever I head back to MedSci and get ambushed while trying to sort out my stash (again much harder with the auto aim).

The Good
The story so far is interesting. The voice acting fits. The atmosphere and setting feel like a direct connection to the original story.
Hydro was fairly well balanced except for when I was swarmed with 4-5 hybrids and 2 midwifes. Good amounts of tension from that encounter which would have been fairly straight forward in the original.
I'm forced to use Psi skills which is a mixed bag really. It is definitely not as clean as weapons due to its charging up and burn-out, but it brings out different pacing which is nice to see.
The sounds from the psi creatures are great, creepy, and give me plenty of time to check up on my psi amp.

The Neutral
I must be spoiled from some of the other mods, but the OS upgrades seem so very stale in their original state.
Still not sure what the Infinite Memory Chips are except that maybe they relate to a 'good end'

Other notes... I'm using a steam install (so much more convenient than the worn out CD) with Bluemess's mod manager and it seems to work fine so far. I hope I'm not missing anything because of that.

[6642280744ec6xdiesp]

Thank you very much for your test!

Complete immunity to other damage types means engineering was particularly hard due to the amount of robotic enemies and changes to rechargers.

Working as intended, but don't get me wrong here. I relate to all you say: playtesters and I have been at it for months. There are 2 forces at work here: (1) making the new gameplay style distinguishable and (2) not make it impossibly hard. I never released the mod until I though we stroke a deal with that.

(1) Immunities used to be resistancies, and the diminishing returns from attacking higher level mobs were lower: the result was, it seemed to be playing vanilla. It was changed to feel like something different.

(2) How freaking difficult it was: Join uss would have appreciated it. AI moved 10% faster, the good ending required all Infinite Memory Chips, and the fat cybermodules from the security crates weren't there (they were taken from the pool of the Quest). The result was, that any screwup with the build would be deadly and you would be backpedaling like mad from any mob. While sorting your 5 weapons and 7 ammo types: the aiming system just exists to speed you up, and has actually been nerfed.

Did Psi-pull get removed? I could not grab a few items up high because of that.

Yes, Psi Pull is what is now Marie: Escape Route. High items need to be shot or reached by jumping: if you see one that seems glued to the ground (a few were, to force use of Psi Pull), please report me as they must have eluded me.

There were many situations where I wanted to shoot a camera out, but it would instead target a robot or turret.

Where did it happen, in Hydro2 (the level you arrive at with the elevator) at the security booth with camera + eggs + turrets? These situations we have handled by moving apart turrets and cameras: that one could be improved further, if you confirm (edit: I moved that camera and updated the patch, well done noticing this!).

is also hard when under pressure. The UI was never meant for quick swapping and it shows when its demanded. I am currently carrying... 10 weapons which all seem to be required.

Ah! I should have read this part before writing about 1) and 2) earlier! Yes, you have seen how things get more complex and why the new aiming system helps you with reaction times. So yes, the handholding does cease and things get hairy. But I can help you:

- hotkey your weapons for faster swapping;
- secondary fire modes have no maluses (other than the obvious fact that if you triple-burst a hybrid which dies in one shot, you waste 2 ammo);
- drop outleveled weapons, unless you have a plan (mine is, have a laser pistol just like a wrench... and drop the wrench);
- there's a recycler early in the hacked replicator of the Medsci2 lobby, it helps with inventory tideness;
- did you see the trainer machine quipping "brought a knife to a gunfight? Use PSI! (tm)"? It's true: PSI abilities are a general override for the class system. If you were stunning cyborgs with "Dominion over the Human Mind" (a renamed Hypnogenesis... it was renamed to make it clearer it didn't affect PSI targets) you could entirely skip using Heavy Weapons for the entire game.

I found a level 4 grub that was completely immune to my overhead smashes.

No, this is the bug mentioned in the FAQ: quicksaving and reloading usually fixes it. Sorry, the cause is not clear yet (what's happening is that a mob might randomly spawn without its metaproperty Resistance Table). A level 4 grub is supposed to die in 2-3 hits tops.

my medium armor still lets me take a considerable beating

Well, gear gets better and Endurance fixes the rest. Please notice that a level 1 enemy doesn't suffer from diminishing returns against your level 3 armor (imagine the flak I would get for that lol).

edit
On a side note, if you drop the Infinite Memory Chip, you will notice it says "Quest Item". And if you examine it with the "?" icon, it will tell you a funny story about it.

[664228074512aJackTheHacker]

I finished MedSci and my overall reflections are positive so far, however there is one major problem:

AUTOAIM!

I like how it shows "ranged hybrid" etc. when you aim, but the aiming itself is an unpredictable mess. I often wasn't sure about if I was firing in the right way or not, but that isn't the worst part(it could even be good, in fact, had it not been in a game where resource management is key). The worst part is looting. It's a nightmare to pick up a magazine on a desk or jump around just so that you can fix your aim on that orange juice and not the booze on the desk. I think it's best if you include an option to turn it on or off, since it is quite annoying even when you get used to it.

Otherwise, the "what if" and mind bending story, along with the first memory, were compelling and ghost monkeys are a scary twist indeed (though I'd like to see other enemies suffering from ALL damage sources- it's annoying that a hybrid isn't even hurt by energy or that a camera is impervious to antipersonnel bullets).

Overall, good job! Keep it up!

[664228074556dxdiesp]

Thanks for the info! Check the latest patch, it has a fix for the "item under dead monster" problem.

I think it's best if you include an option to turn it on or off, since it is quite annoying even when you get used to it.

For my mods I'm used to make mutators for specific player requests, but I hesitate here because I have to handle the big picture. If players start to play this the unintended way, and later complain about the same problems the new aiming system is supposed to counter (less shooter and more stats) then we've wasted 4 months. Notice how you report difficulties in aiming to still items, and the previous poster having trouble fighting with his inventory loaded: so much for the godly autoaim that kills mobs in your place.

Risks were taken and I never doubted the new elements to be criticized: I'm actually surprised no one is bashing me for adding a companion to a horror game plunged in solitude (there's a reason if she's a ghost, sending you to hack to pieces your own corpse lol).

I keep all your reports in high regard, at the moment I'm still filing this under "the aiming system takes acclimatization, goddamnit", but we'll see. Thanks Jack, keep it up with the good info too