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Topic Summary

Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 13. March 2024, 14:08:05 »

this reminded me - yeah, being able to modify fonts in some way that's not THAT wouldn't be bad.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 12. March 2024, 05:44:02 »

Meh, modern games have a hundred times as many asset files as SS2.



Oh for sure, there's a ton of overhead right now, but my sanity starts slipping going through that obj folder, while other games nicely structure their files in neat subfolders.

But it would be nice to be able to tell the engine to tweq through index 0-24 of a .bin that could contain any number of meshes without having a massive amount of blah_0-100.bin taking up visual space in the obj folder.


But again, dark engines ways of animations keeps coming back and haunting me, so many things possible if everything wasn't so hardcoded and locked down with the database, rigs and use.

Random thought:

Theoretically with a hundred of bins it should be possible to sort of replicate an animated enemy right now, including virtual vhots for attachments and such, minus the nice blending and all that.

Posted by: sarge945
« on: 11. March 2024, 01:25:43 »

Meh, modern games have a hundred times as many asset files as SS2.

IIRC Pathologic stores every model in every map as a separate bin file, with an offset from the origin.

SS2 having a few extra bins is a drop in the bucket compared to modern game shenanigans.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 11. March 2024, 00:36:02 »

And having massive amounts of .bin's in the one obj folder
Meh, modern games have a hundred times as many asset files as SS2.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 10. March 2024, 13:42:40 »

Another feature Request.

It would be nice if there was an easy way to make psi effects, alarms, etc persist through loading zones.

The way levels are handled by the game engine obviously makes that extremely problematic.

Being able to add new sounds via dml would also be fantastic. Currently there's no real way to do that and it's very limiting.

I'd also love a way to disable saving via squirrel, and perform saves using squirrel so we can make the SS2 equivalent of ink ribbons, but I'm a bit insane when it comes to difficulty and I understand that mashing the quicksave key is so entrenched that there's probably no point asking.

Same thing with enabling/disabling multiplayer respawns via squirrel.

Also, I think @RoSoDude would appreciate a way to draw on top of game ui elements using overlay handlers (or even replace them), since iirc that's caused annoying issues with RSD mod.

Sorry for asking for so much, we have a chance here to have the best possible version of SS2, and it's an opportunity I feel is important to capitalize on.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 10. March 2024, 07:23:27 »

Why not just dynamically change the Self Illumination property to change the emission brightness?  Much easier than fighting with frame-based animation sequences.  And smoother, too.

Yeah, Joint + SelfIllum change, would still be through squirrel for full ease control.

But as it is now for me, frame-based sequences are super easy to implement and I'm just looking for scp compatibility.


Regardless, it's all interesting hacks to reach a goal, if I hadn't peaked at the button stuff in scp I would've missed out on a lot of the cool things that I'm doing right now.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 10. March 2024, 06:29:00 »

The only real downside of using model-based animation is that there's no mechanism for pre-caching all the models, so animations can be a bit stuttery the first time they play. Well, it's no worse than shader compilation stutter, and most gamers seem willing to put up with that.

Oh, and there's no native support for model animation sequences longer than 4 or 5 frames. You have to either chain together multiple objects with corpse links, or use a script to manually switch models.

And having massive amounts of .bin's in the one obj folder, can't make any promises on this front but there's ideas about solving both precaching and a better way to store mesh-chains.

I've currently used it on the grub to make a non-segmented animation for it, and so far it's the only way to really animate static meshes beyond joints, and in the blend it's a rigged object pre-export:
[grub_test_2.gif expired]
[grub_rig.jpg expired]
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 10. March 2024, 01:17:27 »

Seems like having a script chase after the joint state to keep the self-illum synced would be even more of a hack. And that approach wouldn't work anyway if you had multiple materials in the model with different illumination levels. Anyway, we're talking about model-based animations in general here. The SCP elevator button is just a handy example. Remember years ago when Sliptip demonstrated some impressive work in this area?

This is the last time I'm gonna bother making suggestions for SCP because it's just pointless.
Great, first Join2, now you. Is it National Go Off Your Meds Week or something?

Maybe sit down with a nice warm herbal tea and repeat to yourself, "I will not become emotionally invested in buttons."
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 10. March 2024, 00:22:23 »

I think the elevator button is due to emission changes through the animation, which I'd also like to see more control over.

Why not just dynamically change the Self Illumination property to change the emission brightness?  Much easier than fighting with frame-based animation sequences.  And smoother, too.
Posted by: ThiefsieFool
« on: 10. March 2024, 00:11:08 »

Man, you could have just said that nothing that you implement will ever be changed, not that the orange elevator button absolutely needs to have emissive animations on it for whatever reason. This is the last time I'm gonna bother making suggestions for SCP because it's just pointless.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 09. March 2024, 22:45:32 »

The only real downside of using model-based animation is that there's no mechanism for pre-caching all the models, so animations can be a bit stuttery the first time they play. Well, it's no worse than shader compilation stutter, and most gamers seem willing to put up with that.

Oh, and there's no native support for model animation sequences longer than 4 or 5 frames. You have to either chain together multiple objects with corpse links, or use a script to manually switch models.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 09. March 2024, 20:57:58 »

Since you're already looking into making some of the underlying features more extendible, can you have a look at adding some of the stuff from my newdark wishlist?

It will go a long way to ensuring mod compatibility going forward.

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=12296.msg148823#msg148823

For sure saving this one down, some of those are even on my own wishlist
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 09. March 2024, 20:49:38 »

Using frame-based animation also allows precise control over easing, which joint-based animation does not.

Setting the JointPos has worked really good for me in this case, but yeah, tweq'ing has its limitations, would be nice to have some more fine control over the easing of those.

But frame-based animation does give you everything else such as full control over anything visual about the model, you could do any kind of mesh and material manipulation to the mesh in a 3d program and the game really wouldn't have to know how to handle anything about it.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 09. March 2024, 20:30:41 »

Using frame-based animation also allows precise control over easing, which joint-based animation does not.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 09. March 2024, 17:48:52 »

This is getting out of hand. You know you can use the Joints system to create smooth animations with a single bin model.

Jointed elevator button from Secmod which is publicly available. It's not hard.



Yep!

I think the elevator button is due to emission changes through the animation, which I'd also like to see more control over.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 09. March 2024, 15:58:04 »

Since you're already looking into making some of the underlying features more extendible, can you have a look at adding some of the stuff from my newdark wishlist?

It will go a long way to ensuring mod compatibility going forward.

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=12296.msg148823#msg148823
Posted by: ThiefsieFool
« on: 09. March 2024, 15:13:57 »

This is getting out of hand. You know you can use the Joints system to create smooth animations with a single bin model.

Jointed elevator button from Secmod which is publicly available. It's not hard.

Posted by: eldrone
« on: 09. March 2024, 08:25:37 »

ZylonBane
I wish!

But knowing development back from those days it's very likely there wasn't much sources or repositories kept for everything, would've been nice to have some non-palletized textures for everything though.

Likely there's a harddrive or two somewhere on the planet with these things on it.


Right now I'm keeping everything in nice source files, psds and blends and a one button solution to export everything into the game, will be sharing my solution later on.


Have had some ideas to implement the material system to be viewable in blender so those mtl's can be kept and viewed on the source side and pushed to the game along with the rest of the stuff.


There was also an animated elevator button in several bins (not sure if that was yours or voodoos work) that I've converted to be set up as an animation in blender, and the exporter just pushing each frame of the animation as a seperate bin.
Posted by: Divinus Prime
« on: 08. March 2024, 21:29:02 »

Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 08. March 2024, 16:41:57 »

I wonder if the hard drives and/backups from when Looking Glass went out of business even exist anymore, and if so, if Night Dive now has the rights to any System Shock 2 data on them. Being able to access the source files for all the textures, models, and sounds would be amazingly useful.
Posted by: Chandlermaki
« on: 06. March 2024, 19:07:08 »

Post action in action. I've been trying to parse archetypes for the relevant information so it's completely compatible with anything, but it might have to go into args along with a new script, so far this part of the shotgun is a predefine/exception in the script itself.


edit: and yeah I know, muzzleflash got janked at some point.

Even if it looks a little bit off, that is extremely impressive to see in action. Awesome work!
Posted by: WalterREQUiEM
« on: 06. March 2024, 07:20:44 »

eldroneextremely cool to see ss2 with fullblown viewmodel animations. To add onto what Livo suggested, it'd be cool to see the exotic weapons twitch or pulsate as you held them. Any plans to have casting animations for the psi amp as well? would it be possible to have the psi amp morph into the psi sword or is that sorta beyond dark engine as a whole?
Posted by: Livo
« on: 06. March 2024, 04:45:56 »

Looks fantastic, nice work! The pump animation looked like it was double pumping as voodoo47 elaborated, but you've said you've fixed it already.

Can there be an extra visual indication of the selected firing mode on some of the firearms? Literally just a lever that moves up or down, a button that pops out, extra light or screen glowing on the weapon, nothing fancy or elaborate.

Apologies if SCP fixed this already, I haven't played SS2 in a very long time, can bio-weapons sound a bit more like they're "fleshy" and "loading worms from a beaker into something icky" when changing fire modes & reloading? 
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 05. March 2024, 22:50:17 »

voodoo47
Yeah exactly like this, optical illusion. When I lowered the kickback so that you still see the relevant parts of the shotgun you'll see that it didn't move, and it doesn't feel off anymore, so that should fix it!
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 05. March 2024, 22:46:45 »

currently, it almost looks like the shot is triggered by the first big pump action, and then a smaller double pump action follows that ejects  the empty shell and loads another one.

or is that just an optical illusion and the first pump action actually does not exist?
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 05. March 2024, 22:41:29 »

voodoo47
There's exactly one in there, but the way the shotgun kicks back when it fires have been bothering me too, even me knowing it doesn't touch that joint while doing that!

Will tweak the kickback value a bit closer to vanilla.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 05. March 2024, 22:37:55 »

something feels off, I will have to check how real world shotguns do this. like way too many pump actions being performed.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 05. March 2024, 22:32:13 »

Post action in action. I've been trying to parse archetypes for the relevant information so it's completely compatible with anything, but it might have to go into args along with a new script, so far this part of the shotgun is a predefine/exception in the script itself.


edit: and yeah I know, muzzleflash got janked at some point.
Posted by: Livo
« on: 03. March 2024, 08:14:13 »

I suggested this earlier, but having "sights glow slightly when in darker areas" would be a nice little improvement. A simple idle animation for some weapons would be fantastic as well: nothing fancy, even a HL1 level of quality idle would be a big step up. I assume the sliding bolt for the AR also properly works in Enhanced Edition now?

Out of curiosity, are Goggles' sleeves part of the weapon itself like older games, or could a modder change only the sleeves without also needing to muck around with the weapon model? Maybe someone utterly dedicated and/or crazy could make a mod where career choices actually change the players' sleeves, based on Gareth Hinds concept art for SS2?  Unless Nightdive are doing this already...

The only major problem would be the cryotube beginning & ending would also need to be real-time to properly match up, but if that could be done whilst leaving all the other major cutscenes (like the Von Braun promo) as videos, I think that'd be a good compromise. Seeing your choices in a first person RPG physically alter your character, even if it's just a minor cosmetic touch, would be amazing and a very noticeable graphical upgrade.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 02. March 2024, 15:28:13 »

Sounds good, as long as weapons don't end up forced to do the "wall heil" like in the System Shock remake.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 02. March 2024, 09:02:03 »

Have to mention I've wrangled the game to finally have the post action animation working on weapons, so shotgun pumps post shooting are in.

Essentially hijacking the viewport weapon display, full control of visuals. Engine just handles the gameplay stuff, and even that part can be custom.

Looking into opening up for more custom weapons, or really anything: weapons, tools, new psi-amp style tools. Things that would end up with the player holding something in the hands visibly.

For EE it basically just means animation improvements and weapon position options:(left/right/middle, one hand/two hands)
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 01. March 2024, 22:21:56 »

ACC's last release has been supplanted by the "unofficial" versions, which are unofficial only in the sense that there was never a formal handover, since ACC disappeared from the forums about seven years ago. The current version, 21U, is required for full SCP Beta 5 compatibility (and makes a ton of general non-SCP improvements).
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 01. March 2024, 21:40:11 »

ZylonBane
Last official one, but there was the community update right?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 01. March 2024, 15:55:09 »

eldroneI noticed on the screenshot you posted on Discord that you seem to be using an old version of 400.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 01. March 2024, 05:56:29 »

voodoo47
This one is happening for sure!
Posted by: jimbo
« on: 01. March 2024, 02:02:10 »

increased playercap for coop, let us bring 16-32 people with us to the von braun and whack everything out of existence
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 27. February 2024, 00:33:28 »

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=12488

so yeah, support for more audio file formats wouldn't be bad.
Posted by: RoSoDude
« on: 26. February 2024, 21:34:53 »

eldrone
@sarge945 had a really good suggestion on how this could be implemented in a mod manager -- basically, string files would get rebuilt on game startup and included .str files would be treated like diff files. If supplied in full, the modified .str file will replace all of the associated strings. If supplied in part, the modified .str file would only replace the strings included, and otherwise use the base strings from the game/lower mods.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 24. February 2024, 21:13:13 »

Hmm...

It would be super useful if there was some way to override only specific strings in a string file, instead of having to all-or-nothing replace the entire thing.

Noting this one down, there's a ton of things like this limiting mixing mods
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 24. February 2024, 21:05:50 »

the original AI mesh tools are pita to work with, or so I have heard.

This one was essentially the first thing to be solved, before any newdark parity was fully implemented.

New rigs or animations is still an entirely different beast however, or the same old beast.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. February 2024, 18:24:56 »

the original AI mesh tools are pita to work with, or so I have heard.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 24. February 2024, 18:10:46 »

Hmm...

It would be super useful if there was some way to override only specific strings in a string file, instead of having to all-or-nothing replace the entire thing.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 24. February 2024, 10:34:40 »

Just to gather some information regarding modding:



What's the biggest wishes related to the deeper workings around limitations and features when it comes to modding, dmls, and squirrel functionality?
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 19. December 2023, 18:56:26 »

no, it's SCPb4 maps relit in the editor. and yes, I know this because I can see the SCP texture offsets on the screenshots.

Yep, tests in newdark and shocked.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 19. December 2023, 18:19:10 »

no, it's SCPb4 maps relit in the editor. and yes, I know this because I can see the SCP texture offsets on the screenshots.
Posted by: Xkilljoy98
« on: 19. December 2023, 17:52:53 »

Are these pictures from SS2 EE?
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 19. December 2023, 10:54:12 »

Almost none of the props under the Decorative branch of the hierarchy are marked as immobile. They probably considered it too much of a pain in the ass at the time to sort through all the hundreds of props to individually determine which ones would and would not be movable in-game.

But regarding the crates specifically, in the vanilla maps some of those crates are actually movable, like the ones on rick3. So setting all of them to cast shadows would be bad.

Why are you asking about this anyway? I thought EE was going to use the vanilla maps, with SCP thrown in as the "improved" option.

Just due diligence surrounding any potential rendering improvements or rebakes, mainly because I want to avoid any conflicts or issues, such as most things mentioned already.

Testing the waters!
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 18. December 2023, 21:25:12 »

Almost none of the props under the Decorative branch of the hierarchy are marked as immobile. They probably considered it too much of a pain in the ass at the time to sort through all the hundreds of props to individually determine which ones would and would not be movable in-game.

But regarding the crates specifically, in the vanilla maps some of those crates are actually movable, like the ones on rick3. So setting all of them to cast shadows would be bad.

Why are you asking about this anyway? I thought EE was going to use the vanilla maps, with SCP thrown in as the "improved" option.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 18. December 2023, 19:34:48 »

Yeah, way too many things speaking against baking the turret shadows.

were there any reason on why decorative boxes were left out of this too?

Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 18. December 2023, 09:12:15 »

laser beams included.
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