Thief list of broken and lowpoly objects that need fixing

[663421345cc54Olfred]

hmm.... strange...
Modelwise it should be the same as the newt01.bin now, except the extra vertex which makes the box bigger.
I'm not so familiar with anything Thief, so how does the engine know where to put the dowsing effekt?

Maybe it's just some awkward coordinate based thing which is now fucked up because the box of the model changed. I wouldn't be surprised.

[663421345ce47ZylonBane]

Okay, here's the deal--

Given a model's E file, and a copy of BSP.EXE, you can optionally provide this command line parameter to translate the generated object the desired amount along the desired axis:

Code: [Select]

-t<x|y|z><#>     : translate object
For example, this will shift the object 10 units along the Z axis.:

Code: [Select]

bsp myobject.e -tz10
I'm guessing this command uses the same coordinate scale as the objects themselves, but don't quote me on that.

[663421345d04avoodoo47]

I had a look at all (because the fire moving is actually a set of models switching around, newt02-05) the torch models in the editor, and looks like it's one of those "hey, lets do something insane here" cases. each model has a different z-size, so I assume there is some sort of special handling taking place that prevents the model from jumping around (however, it doesn't work unless the torch is in a perfect vertical position, and as soon as you give it pitch or bank, the model will start to jump around).

that said, I think fixing this will be a lot of fun pita, so ye be warned.

[663421345d15cOlfred]

Well if they do some special wonky thing inside the engine there, there is not much I could do as long as no one is able to remove that stuff.

I haven't witnessed it ingame now, so my first guess is that they move it around in world coordinates and not based on the model coordinates.

[663421345d269voodoo47]

attaching a set of torch models that does not have the jumping around problem, maybe it could be compared to the orig set and find out what's going on.

[663421345d39dvoodoo47]

no idea why didn't I think about this before - please flip the T2 torch set 180 degrees around horizontal (X) axis so they could be used in T1.

[T2torches.7z expired]

[663421345d47bOlfred]

Aren't the "nojump_torch" already what you request?

[663421345d584voodoo47]

no, as they lack the fire effect, and actually, I think that is the reason why they aren't jumping around. anyway, a little jumping is not a big deal, the missing flame is - so the second set flipped around would be preferable.

[663421345d66bOlfred]

OK.
But they have a different dimesion than the original T1 ones. Should I jiggle juggle them around so it fit's the old model, or just rotate and be happy?

[663421345d76avoodoo47]

it would be nice to have them fit the old model - lets hope this won't break them in any way.

[663421345d833Olfred]

OK

[663421345d91fOlfred]

Did some testing with the torches and I think I found a good way to do it.
As I am not that familiar with thief, could you tell me how I can create an unlit torch and how I light it ingame?

[663421345da7dvoodoo47]

not sure what do you want to do, but the easiest way would be to just use the same names for the torch replacement models, drop them into a modpath folder (that would be usermods\obj in a TFix install - can specify your own in cam_mod.ini), find a torch in a level (the first one has them right at the beginning), and check things out. the torch behavior is mostly handled by two things - the Extinguishable script, which takes care of dousing/relighting, and tweq, which makes it "burn", meaning it switches the models around so it looks like the flame is burning. took me a very long time to figure out how this works.

if you want to set up some object as extinguishable/torch, you will need three things on the object - renderer/animlight (minimum must be 0, max whatever you like, usually around 100), the Extinguishable script, and Tweq set up properly (varies on how many models you want to cycle, and how exactly should the effect look like).

[663421345dbe3Olfred]

I wanted to know how to set it off and what I need to do ingame to switch it on and off.
(I actually never played any Thief game  ).

Anyway, I started working on it and I would say this one should work.
What I found out was that the Tweq/MiscC/Anchor setting is responsible for keeping the torch in place even though they have different dimensions.

With the models I made now you won't need this setting anymore (but it also doesn't hurt to have it enabled).
You can also tilt the model now without it going jumpy.

Thief doesn't need any bbox information as there are no bracets or whatsoever, right? I didn't set up any bbox and the actual model now does have a bigger size than the old one.

[663421345dd63voodoo47]

yes, and you are right. model working ok so far, none of that weirdness that happened with dousing after attempting to fix the orig set. however, there is some sort of weird lighting thing going on when the models are switched around, see the video (might take a few minutes until it's processed).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjiEBwxKhmc

[663421345de6bOlfred]

You mean the texture jiggling on the torch itself?
That was already part of the models you gave me.

[663421345df81voodoo47]

woah, you are right. I have no idea what's going on, those models are the latest EP2 models, and they are not doing that when used in T2 as far as I know. attaching the EP1 set, looks while it still has the same problem, it's doing it much less. it'd be great if you could make it not do that of course.

[ep1_toches.7z expired]

[663421345e070ZylonBane]

The animated polygon "flames" in Thief are the worst, most poorly-considered effects in the entire game. With NewDark adding proper support for bitmap particles and axially-locked sprites, there's no excuse for keeping them.

[663421345e179voodoo47]

the problem is that I'm just not smart enough, and it takes me oh so long to learn new editor things. like setting up proper NewDark torch particle systems, for example.

but will have to learn it eventually, as I plan to ship TFix 2.0 with proper candle flames, not those puffy temporary things that are in the T1 unified demo. until then, whatever Olfred is going to throw at me will have to suffice.

[663421345e250Olfred]

There ya go

[663421345e390voodoo47]

yeah, these work fine - off into TFix 1.19k 1.20 they go. thanks.

//quick note; a lot of lights, trophies, and generally stuffs that hang on the walls are missing backs. the updated bell used in TafferPatcher does not move.

[663421345e92dnemyax]

Thief doesn't need any bbox information as there are no bracets or whatsoever, right?

It might be needed for proper highlighting of frobbables. Frobbably.

[663421345eb10voodoo47]

ok, linking both updated Thief bells, one is static, the second one does swing, but not in a normal way (the wooden beam definitely shouldn't move together with the bell). Olfred, any chance you could make it behave at least somewhat realistically? the original lowres model that moves properly is attached. also, any chance something could be done with the clapper* of the enhanced model? it would be really awesome if it could swing independently of the bell itself..

http://catmanofiowa.com/RSoul/bellt2.zip
http://catmanofiowa.com/RSoul/bellswing.zip


*how very unromantic. it's called the bell's heart in my native tongue.

[663421345ec91Olfred]

The bellswing looks right to me.
You are able to move the clapper and the bell moving together with wooden beam is absolutely correct, just some details are missing for it to really look properly.

Also the bell2.bin you linked is completely static, no moving parts.