07. January 2013, 02:19:19

#0

GuudQuote

After the release of the v2.4 patch, I figured now would be a great time to take advantage of the engine improvements by attempting to up-rez the old character models. I have little 3d modelling experience and even less technical knowledge, so I'm gonna be asking lots of questions and seeking out those who know their way around the modding scene.

The current models I have made are within the 2500-3000 range. Could I get away with something higher; should I aim lower? Does the patch effect the poly-count limits?

I have also encountered problems with the default animations badly distorting the new character models; is there anyway to modify the animation pre-sets or am I just gonna have to work my way around it?

Assuming it all works out anyway, thanks in advance.

The test files in question:
http://www.mediafire.com/?83czrp2vwm0x9

07. January 2013, 02:46:49

#1

KolyaQuote

I don't think the poly limits for AIs have changed. As long as you can get the stuff past 3ds2bin you should be fine though.
I know very little about AI creation, one thing I remember though is that you should start with an existing 3ds model that already has the names and limit planes for animation. Otherwise animating it later will get really hard.
You can find more information here: ShockEd: How to make new BIPED Meshes for Dark Engine Games
That guide is quite old but most of it should still apply, if not all. Also read what Nameless Voice wrote in the ShockEd Toolkit about 3ds2bin (in the Tools subdir).

07. January 2013, 02:52:27

#2

RocketManQuote

Having trouble loading with my version of max.  Can you post a screenshot of the mesh?

Anyway, do you have any texturing skills?  Regardless, we should work together.  I can help you.

07. January 2013, 05:19:34

#3

GuudQuote

I updated my mediafire folder with a .3ds version of my model with the joint planes in place. I did in fact, use the Thief 2 animation references. My biggest problem comes with the animations, and how they treat the model.

When in a neutral stance, everything seems to be in order:
Image: http://i50.tinypic.com/20ze2dv.png

But distorts horribly when in certain poses or animation cycles:
Image: http://i48.tinypic.com/2rhs879.png

Now I understand that the original game models were so crude in a lot of ways, that sometimes there was no geometry between joints on a character, and by adding several hundred more polys it's going to have unintended results. Plus the character models behaved weird even back in the day. The question is; can I do anything about it?

I could scale down the model detail, but I would like to explore other avenues first.

07. January 2013, 16:58:02

#4

RocketManQuote

Of course I can't be certain from just looking but I THINK I know what the issue is.

First of all, you've got a natural wrist angle in your model that I don't think should be there and the scarecrow pose is kinda lazy (the arms droop).  If you angles built into the geometry then when the engine applies its own for animations and such, the sum of the angles can look wrong.  Best to keep a straight wrist and arms straight out to the side with palms facing down.  You'll notice that currently the limit planes are not intersecting the mesh at right angles and this is bad.

The second thing I notice is that some of your limit planes are tilted like the neck plane.  I'm not sure if thief uses this deliberately but in ss2, all the ones I see are flat.

The third thing is the complex geometry you have at the elbow and shoulder.  Too many tris there so local distortions can take on a wider range of shapes.  Also bending cannot occur in a precise plane.  It seems to need to follow a staircase pattern around the arm, which will only look smooth in a couple of basic poses.  Any extreme repositioning will cause vertices to jut out in weird ways.  Also since the resolution is so high in these areas, certain polygons anchored to the rigid members will move but will not carry the adjacent polygons with them.

Dunno if I'm making sense but let me know if you agree.

I will say that you have superb modelling skills though... at least compared to me