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System Shock takes place on a space station named ...:

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Topic Summary

Posted by: JML
« on: 10. October 2017, 11:25:05 »

Just bought the Recycler, after I've cleaned out Decks 1-5. I collected pretty much everything, and just recycled everything I don't need, like garbage, but also Psi-Hypos, Worm glasses, multiple implants, etc. Just in Decks 1-5 this is 678N, so maybe 6CM if you go crazy in these Decks (Recycler price is 150N). The nanites you pick are more than the one recycled I think. Still you need nanites for Ammo and Heals and Hacks, Repairs, etc. I don't think you can get a lot over 20 CM with this mod, so not OP at all, given that you will have less Ammo if you use 2000N on 20CMs
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 27. September 2017, 10:23:57 »

Quote by voodoo47:

also, no on adding more stuff like audiologs to this minimod, I have bigger fish to fry - the ghost mentioning multiple hacks of the replicator ought to be enough.

Fair enough, mate, it was just a thought.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 25. September 2017, 20:30:50 »

yes, and that is most likely the reason it has made it into the final game, despite the flaws.
Posted by: Kolya
« on: 25. September 2017, 20:28:28 »

I mean, the normal use case will  be someone who runs out of ammo and wants an easier game. After a difficulty change they can buy ammo cheaper and continue on their merry way, as it has been since 1999. The alternative is to force them to restart the game.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 25. September 2017, 18:46:15 »

as mentioned, some stuff is set up to only exist at certain difficulties, once you enter a level they blow up, and you won't be getting them back. so if you change the difficulty mid-game, you will and up with a weird hybrid of different difficulties. not detrimental, but definitely not proper either.

would compare it to activating/deactivating certain mods (the Repairman, RealSG, ObjShrink and similar) mid-game - while you can do that, slight issues will occur, and while they won't make the game go belly up, it's not something I would recommend.


also, no on adding more stuff like audiologs to this minimod, I have bigger fish to fry - the ghost mentioning multiple hacks of the replicator ought to be enough.
Posted by: Kolya
« on: 25. September 2017, 18:32:48 »

Quote by ZylonBane:
The problem with changing the difficulty mid-game is that Dark isn't designed for that kind of nonsense. Thief doesn't let you change difficulty mid-mission, because when you start a mission there can be a lot of processing and setup based on the difficulty level. SS2 does the same thing when you enter a map for the first time.

When changing difficulty mid-game it apparently applies the changes on the fly that can be done that way  (eg the replicator prices). The other pre-calculated difficulty settings will follow as soon as the next level is loaded, which happens quite often in SS2. This behaviour still fits the idea of making things easier for a player who finds themselves in over their head, not? Or does it cause any problems?
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 25. September 2017, 14:50:34 »

What would be good is if you added a log into the game, where one of the crew is revealed to be a smuggler or thief, telling his accomplice that he's stashed the stolen Cyber Modules in that specific replicator.

The text/spoken speech would be something along the lines of:

"Jerry, I've stashed the Cyber Modules I took, they're in that replicator in the medical section, the one I was 'repairing' earlier. I've hid them there as the replication shielding will prevent anyone finding them accidentally when scanning for anything, as I *really* don't want to get caught with them. And if you do, then forget you know me. But don't forget I want 75% of what you get for them, it's me who's taking most of the risks. And don't hang about, to get past the anti-tampering on the replicator, I've had to fool it into thinking it's making CMs when in fact it's giving the real ones out. They're not listed yet, but if you hack the rep, then it'll hand them out like candy to you. I've set the nanite cost as low as I could, but I didn't have the authority to overwrite the ingredient table, sorry. Still, what we get for the CMs will make the nanites look like loose change."

This would explain why only one replicator can do this, and add one more (very small) aspect to the story of System Shock 2.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 24. September 2017, 23:08:08 »

Quote by Kolya:
I think the idea of allowing to change difficulty mid-game (as is possible in many modern games as well) is to give people who are having a tough time a way to scale the game to their skills without having to restart.
The problem with changing the difficulty mid-game is that Dark isn't designed for that kind of nonsense. Thief doesn't let you change difficulty mid-mission, because when you start a mission there can be a lot of processing and setup based on the difficulty level. SS2 does the same thing when you enter a map for the first time.
Posted by: Kolya
« on: 24. September 2017, 22:01:20 »

I think the idea of allowing to change difficulty mid-game (as is possible in many modern games as well) is to give people who are having a tough time a way to scale the game to their skills without having to restart. I have no idea why one would regard this as an "unintended side effect".
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. September 2017, 21:30:26 »

that would indeed, be quite evil.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 24. September 2017, 21:23:53 »

I just verified that not only can you get the current difficulty, you can change it too. So a sufficiently evil script could continually force the difficulty back to whatever its original value was.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. September 2017, 21:06:00 »

yes, but I don't think it's possible to tell the replicator to ignore it, and have hard set prices no matter the difficulty.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 24. September 2017, 20:58:15 »

I believe it's possible to determine the current difficulty level by accessing the qvar "difficulty".
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. September 2017, 20:47:21 »

yes, that (changing difficulty before purchasing something to get lower prices and then changing it back) has been possible since day one, we are still not sure whether this was an unintended side effect of an intended functionality or not, but we are pretty sure it's not possible to block it in any way.

so yeah, all that can be said is that if you don't like cheating, then simply don't. and just for the record, if you punch the add modules code into the console it's cheating, if you set up a dml that will make replicators spit thousands of modules for 1 nanite it's also cheating, if you lower the prices through difficulty before buying it's, you guessed it, cheating. sorry all the but exploits and stuff is ok people, you are still cheaters, no matter how you park it in your brains.
Posted by: JML
« on: 24. September 2017, 20:11:36 »

Alright. Just tested: It's possible to change difficulty mid-game. So when standing right in front of the replicator and changing to normal, then buying a CM for 111, and then resuming to impossible for 222 works.

Still this mod get's fucked up by the difficulty price changes, but who cares about cheaters, right?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. September 2017, 19:30:48 »

that is the case, completely forgot that difficulty indeed affects replicator prices.
Posted by: JML
« on: 24. September 2017, 19:23:40 »

I restarted the game real quick in easy instead of impossible, and rushed to the replicator after increasing hacking to 3 and now 1 cyber module costs 94 nanites. Could it be that the replicator prizes are connected to difficulty? Because that would be -15%, and on impossible it was +100% in costs.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. September 2017, 19:01:36 »

the code is fine, and does what it should both in the editor and the game itself, just tried. try to start a new game again, but before that, maybe back up the entire install, if this is some sort of edge case thing, I may want to have a look and dissect it completely.
Posted by: JML
« on: 24. September 2017, 18:52:10 »

Quote by voodoo47:
[...]
also, the prices are trivial to change, just edit the dml with any notepadesque editor (and start a new game).

Running into problems already: I changed the medsci1.mis.dml to
DML1

ObjProp 300 "RepHacked"
{
   "Obj 3 Name" 1 EXP
   "Obj 3 Cost" 111
}

started a new game, hacked the replicator and it now of offers a cyber module in slot 3, but for 222 nanites. Any ideas why this happens?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 22. September 2017, 10:01:35 »

well yes, that's why this is a standalone mod - mods are completely optional, so people can choose whether to use them or not. I personally wouldn't use this one, I still think it's a bit too cheaty, but other people may think otherwise (see the peanut butter and cinder block sandwich). one way or another,
Quote by voodoo47:
I don't really care, made the mod for mireazma, JU! wanted it to be public, so it is, whoever thinks loading this is a good idea can go ahead and do so, it doesn't have to make sense, or have a point.
Posted by: JML
« on: 22. September 2017, 09:56:41 »

Well it is definitely not "all that bothers me", but as you are one of the authors of the SCP I know that you are also interested in continuity and keeping it realistic. Don't give me the baby argument excuse like "that's your only problem, with kids dying in africa?!". I've had enough of that for a lifetime with this sister of mine.
Irrational strifed to make System Shock as realistic as possible in the given universe and setting.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 21. September 2017, 15:38:47 »

maybe the hacker just wanted to screw with people.

but seriously, monkeys, zombies and ninjas are running around, you have a giant tumor talking to your head, two AIs that want to push your reset button, and all that bothers you is whether the hacked replicator prices are making sense?

also, the prices are trivial to change, just edit the dml with any notepadesque editor (and start a new game).
Posted by: JML
« on: 21. September 2017, 14:56:04 »

I don't know if the bundle option makes a lot of sense. Since this is a highly illegal hack of a replicator (I think cyber modules are illegal) I don't think they would have implemented a "buy nine, get one free" option. More likely is that a skilled hacker made it possible to make the replicator produce cyber modules, and the exact ammount of nanites to transform into one cyber module is e.g. 110.

(also you could change the price to 111 for eye candy!)
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 17. September 2017, 12:13:24 »

standard pistol bullets, small and large package. pretty sure those can be purchased/acquired elsewhere.
Posted by: JML
« on: 17. September 2017, 11:21:49 »

Can you please tell me what the hacked replicator offered before the modules?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 06. September 2017, 08:28:27 »

well yeah, as I've said, this is pretty much only useful in a situation where something costs 30 modules and you have 28-29. this isn't supposed to be a good deal - if you want a good one, you can always type the add modules cheat into the console.

also fixed the quote for you.
Posted by: Djant
« on: 06. September 2017, 00:37:44 »

Quote by voodoo47:
shouldn't be too balance destroying in its current state - I think max nanites I've ever had was about three thousand, and I'm quite the hoarding type. so my guess is that with this, about 50 extra modules would be possible if you go nuts, and that's not enough to throw things off - just enough to get one more level of that one skill of your dreams if you end up being just a few modules shy.

Also in Impossible that's legitimately a bad deal, 50 modules is barely worth anything even by mid game with the jacked up costs.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 05. September 2017, 20:11:21 »

not many, junk items are 1-2 nanites, the most valuable stuff maybe 10 something? not a great way to farm money in this game.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 05. September 2017, 20:08:07 »

Sounds good. And what of the recycler? How many nanites can you get from that, roughly?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 05. September 2017, 20:06:54 »

shouldn't be too balance destroying in its current state - I think max nanites I've ever had was about three thousand, and I'm quite the hoarding type. so my guess is that with this, about 50 extra modules would be possible if you go nuts, and that's not enough to throw things off - just enough to get one more level of that one skill of your dreams if you end up being just a few modules shy.

also you can't screw around with this too early as you need hack 3 to get into the replicator first, so all should be good.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 05. September 2017, 19:54:56 »

Going to repost this for those of you that like me, frowned upon first reaction to this idea:

I was going to bitch and moan, but I suppose those prices are good in that you'll only be able to buy up to something like 20-40 modules in any given playthrough, which isn't a huge amount and wont utterly destroy balance, and may even add some meaningful choice in the process (desire to buy nanites conflicting with desire to buy ammo, maint. tools, and whatever else).
Doesn't have to be a bad thing and I may even be interested in the dml myself. Currently I find myself just spamming ammo and maint tools from value reps, which also is a bit balance-destroying.

Personally, I think it possibly may be better with slightly higher prices, and just doing away with the bundle pack option too. But I've not given the whole thing a great deal of thought just yet.  Especially in how the recycler relates to this (never even used it myself, but now with CMs on offer one *may* be inspired to tediously recycle half the ship for them).
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 05. September 2017, 19:50:11 »

Tags: °SS2 °DML

This mod will allow the player to buy Cyber Modules from the Medsci replicator near Xerxes (after hacking, replaces small and large standard bullet clips). One CM costs 110 nanites, ten are 1000 (on normal difficulty). Must be activated before entering MedSci for the first time.
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