Posted by: CyrusVonNox2001
« on: 23. October 2024, 00:58:13 »Were the character corpses changed too in SCP? I haven't noticed yet and I don't know how much time I have for gaming this week.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 21. October 2024, 13:33:20 »SCP does not incorporate Portrait Fix. SCP's portrait corrections were created independently from and for the most part differently from Portrait Fix.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 21. October 2024, 09:24:15 »For reference, the incorporated mod is Portrait Fix, and as the others have pointed out, it's already integrated, so you don't need it.
The dust you're seeing was added in SCP5 alongside a bunch of grunge marks, puddles of water, etc etc. A lot of extra little details were added to make the maps more dirty/grimy, and dust is one of them.
The dust you're seeing was added in SCP5 alongside a bunch of grunge marks, puddles of water, etc etc. A lot of extra little details were added to make the maps more dirty/grimy, and dust is one of them.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 21. October 2024, 06:34:47 »SCP does fix a bunch of portraits and corpses so they would have the proper uniforms, I don't think this ever existed as a complete standalone mod, but a portrait fix was available (deprecated, but still lurking somewhere iirc). either way, do not use with SCP.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 21. October 2024, 04:31:50 »The only mod SCP "uses" is Olfred's Fixed Objects.
Watts and Grassi are not wearing black uniforms in SCP. They are wearing standard MedSci uniforms. They have always worn standard MedSci uniforms. SCP did not change them.
Why are you confused by dust?
Watts and Grassi are not wearing black uniforms in SCP. They are wearing standard MedSci uniforms. They have always worn standard MedSci uniforms. SCP did not change them.
Why are you confused by dust?
Posted by: CyrusVonNox2001
« on: 21. October 2024, 03:35:26 »Hey so I have a few questions:
First: I remember a number of years ago there was a mod that fixed audio log portraits so everyone had the right logo and the right shirt color for their respective decks. I think it also changed the corpse models so their uniform color matched the important character you were taking the log off of. I may not have been paying attention during the playthrough preceding my current playthrough so I didn't notice that time, but I did notice this time that both Grassi and Watts, both members of the medsci department, were wearing black uniforms instead of white. Is that mod being used in SCP? Where can I find that mod again? (I looked through the mod section and couldn't find it.) Do you think it could still be compatible with SCP if I was to find it?
Also when I was in the hallway in MedSci going towards Dr. Watts's lab I noticed some dust clouds around the security terminal under a red lighted vent, funny enough, I haven't seen any other dust clouds in MedSci. Was this Intentional? Maybe a forgotten detail from modding the maps? Was it in vanilla?
Here's a screenshot, you probably won't see it though you might have to look at it in game.
https://imgur.com/a/hRZOLyV
First: I remember a number of years ago there was a mod that fixed audio log portraits so everyone had the right logo and the right shirt color for their respective decks. I think it also changed the corpse models so their uniform color matched the important character you were taking the log off of. I may not have been paying attention during the playthrough preceding my current playthrough so I didn't notice that time, but I did notice this time that both Grassi and Watts, both members of the medsci department, were wearing black uniforms instead of white. Is that mod being used in SCP? Where can I find that mod again? (I looked through the mod section and couldn't find it.) Do you think it could still be compatible with SCP if I was to find it?
Also when I was in the hallway in MedSci going towards Dr. Watts's lab I noticed some dust clouds around the security terminal under a red lighted vent, funny enough, I haven't seen any other dust clouds in MedSci. Was this Intentional? Maybe a forgotten detail from modding the maps? Was it in vanilla?
Here's a screenshot, you probably won't see it though you might have to look at it in game.
https://imgur.com/a/hRZOLyV
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. October 2024, 08:40:03 »I will - it's no soundalike, it's the actual guy.
Posted by: CyrusVonNox2001
« on: 07. October 2024, 03:58:56 »ZylonBaneWhat? What am I not seeing?
I just thought it was a cool Idea to add more consistency to the game. If you don't want to, you don't have to.
I just thought it was a cool Idea to add more consistency to the game. If you don't want to, you don't have to.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 07. October 2024, 03:21:59 »Should somebody tell him?what if you did the same thing you did in the navy training room where you used a soundalike to give a new tutorial about security systems.
Posted by: CyrusVonNox2001
« on: 07. October 2024, 03:12:19 »ZylonBane
I guess that's ok. I kinda liked it there though. Remember on MedSci when you went down the ladder and approached the recharger so you could unlock the Med bulkhead, Xerxes opens those two doors with turrets behind them and plays the message about "Unauthorized use of firearms," I see it as a ironic bit of dark humor, kinda like how SHODAN would set little traps for you in the first game. I did have an idea though, what if you did the same thing you did in the navy training room where you used a soundalike to give a new tutorial about security systems. You could use a Stephen Russel soundalike, or in worst case scenario an AI replication, to give a PA system announcement about steam, broken pipes, or hazardous gasses when you climb down into that pit. Or just give us the option to reactivate the original trigger.
I guess that's ok. I kinda liked it there though. Remember on MedSci when you went down the ladder and approached the recharger so you could unlock the Med bulkhead, Xerxes opens those two doors with turrets behind them and plays the message about "Unauthorized use of firearms," I see it as a ironic bit of dark humor, kinda like how SHODAN would set little traps for you in the first game. I did have an idea though, what if you did the same thing you did in the navy training room where you used a soundalike to give a new tutorial about security systems. You could use a Stephen Russel soundalike, or in worst case scenario an AI replication, to give a PA system announcement about steam, broken pipes, or hazardous gasses when you climb down into that pit. Or just give us the option to reactivate the original trigger.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 06. September 2024, 05:56:20 »Mods for SCP are already incompatible with Vanilla in some ways. What if someone adds a weapon to an area of a map only available in SCP (like in Korenchkins added room on the Command deck)?
SCP already includes it's own versions of multiple strings files, any mods for vanilla that edit strings are incompatible with SCP.
I understand that not introducing unnecessary compatibility issues is important, but this seems like a minor issue in the grand scheme of the mod, and the potential benefits are huge for quality of life.
Given SCP is basically being used by everyone, I think it's fair to expect other mods to conform to SCP compatibility, not the other way around. That is the privilege of being a gamesys mod, I guess.
SCP already includes it's own versions of multiple strings files, any mods for vanilla that edit strings are incompatible with SCP.
I understand that not introducing unnecessary compatibility issues is important, but this seems like a minor issue in the grand scheme of the mod, and the potential benefits are huge for quality of life.
Given SCP is basically being used by everyone, I think it's fair to expect other mods to conform to SCP compatibility, not the other way around. That is the privilege of being a gamesys mod, I guess.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 06. September 2024, 02:05:21 »That's problematic, because what if someone installs a mod that changes a weapon's icon? Then when you upgrade the weapon, the icon would revert to the vanilla version.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 06. September 2024, 00:27:51 »I was under the impression that RSD is updated for Beta 5, and should for the most part work with Beta 6.
On a related note, RSD includes icons for upgraded weapons. When a weapon is upgraded it shows a small arrow as part of the weapon icon. I feel like this should be included in SCP since it's an amazing QoL feature, and will especially help newer players who might not know to check if a weapon is modified. The modified pistol in medsci2 comes to mind, because it's very low quality initially, so most players who don't know it's modded will likely throw it away.
On a related note, RSD includes icons for upgraded weapons. When a weapon is upgraded it shows a small arrow as part of the weapon icon. I feel like this should be included in SCP since it's an amazing QoL feature, and will especially help newer players who might not know to check if a weapon is modified. The modified pistol in medsci2 comes to mind, because it's very low quality initially, so most players who don't know it's modded will likely throw it away.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 31. August 2024, 13:15:07 »Have you played the RSD mod?
It literally does everything you're asking for, including making the broken laser pistol available earlier, and a whole lot more.
I thought we weren't to use the RSD mod with the new (beta 6) SCP mod, due to potential problems?
Posted by: Sines
« on: 29. August 2024, 17:25:31 »This current playthrough is my first modded one. I'll give that one a try next time.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 29. August 2024, 16:09:12 »That is kind of my point. Standard Weapons are absurdly OP, and instead of being Jack of All Trades, Master of None, they're just kinda... the Master of All Trades (well, the Pistol and AR are, anyway, the Shotgun is balanced by being a mediocre weapon that is easy to get and has tons of ammo available for it alone). Heavy Weapons ain't too bad either.
If I were rebalancing the game, I'd definitely weaken the Pistol. If I were to do that, then the Laser Pistol would stand out more. Though I would still make it available earlier in the game without a Marine start.
Have you played the RSD mod?
It literally does everything you're asking for, including making the broken laser pistol available earlier, and a whole lot more.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 29. August 2024, 14:31:52 »"Niche" means something that's only useful for a narrow range of tasks.
The laser pistol can kill literally everything, and does it reasonably well. The existence of other superior weapons doesn't negate that. So how about we stop using wrong words to describe things.
And don't forget that you can carry around an entire bandolier of laser pistols, cycling through them in overcharge mode to rapidly take out strong enemies.
The laser pistol can kill literally everything, and does it reasonably well. The existence of other superior weapons doesn't negate that. So how about we stop using wrong words to describe things.
And don't forget that you can carry around an entire bandolier of laser pistols, cycling through them in overcharge mode to rapidly take out strong enemies.
Posted by: Sines
« on: 29. August 2024, 13:01:40 »That is kind of my point. Standard Weapons are absurdly OP, and instead of being Jack of All Trades, Master of None, they're just kinda... the Master of All Trades (well, the Pistol and AR are, anyway, the Shotgun is balanced by being a mediocre weapon that is easy to get and has tons of ammo available for it alone). Heavy Weapons ain't too bad either.Compared to the general utility of STD, everything is a niche weapon.
If I were rebalancing the game, I'd definitely weaken the Pistol. If I were to do that, then the Laser Pistol would stand out more. Though I would still make it available earlier in the game without a Marine start.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 29. August 2024, 11:37:15 »as far as SCP is concerned, I do not see anything beyond potentially moving the jammed eng2 laspistol to the beginning of the level happening.
Wooohooowwwww. Wowwwwww yeahhhhh............ OMG Oh Yes yes yes!!!!!!! :V :Y Wheeeewwwwww :Q Plz make it happening!!!! 🎉🎊💥🔥🌋
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 29. August 2024, 08:27:13 »as far as SCP is concerned, I do not see anything beyond potentially moving the jammed eng2 laspistol to the beginning of the level happening.
also no, the laspistol is not a niche weapon, it can be your main gun for a good chunk of the game without much trouble.
also no, the laspistol is not a niche weapon, it can be your main gun for a good chunk of the game without much trouble.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 29. August 2024, 05:07:49 »The laser pistol isn't niche. It's a solid weapon for Energy players and is by far the most generally useful energy weapon. The Rapier is better overall but you're limited to melee, and the EMP is devastating against bots and turrets but not much else. Using the laser pistol you can have good damage output against most targets, quick kills on low tier enemies with the overcharge, and essentially unlimited ammo. It's a fantastic weapon.
Comparing Energy to Standard is kind of a bad comparison. STD weapons are designed to be jack-of-all trades and ubiquitous. The pistol, shotgun and assault rifle can all be used across a wide variety of situations, especially if you use all of the different ammo types.
Compared to the general utility of STD, everything is a niche weapon. Even within Standard the Shotgun is niche because it can't put out the pain like the AR can, and even feels weak compared to the pistol.
This is also, in my opinion, why STD is so overpowered, which is why I nerfed the special ammo types in one of my gameplay experiment mods.
The only true niche weapons are the Exotic weapons, and maybe the SFG.
Comparing Energy to Standard is kind of a bad comparison. STD weapons are designed to be jack-of-all trades and ubiquitous. The pistol, shotgun and assault rifle can all be used across a wide variety of situations, especially if you use all of the different ammo types.
Compared to the general utility of STD, everything is a niche weapon. Even within Standard the Shotgun is niche because it can't put out the pain like the AR can, and even feels weak compared to the pistol.
This is also, in my opinion, why STD is so overpowered, which is why I nerfed the special ammo types in one of my gameplay experiment mods.
The only true niche weapons are the Exotic weapons, and maybe the SFG.
Posted by: Sines
« on: 29. August 2024, 01:46:59 »So, that's part of what I left out when I rewrote the post. I'll go over it now.The laser pistol is not a niche weapon. It's very effective against mechanical and cyborg targets and has essentially infinite free ammo available.
The Laser Pistol is niche, because the regular Pistol exists. I just wrapped up an Impossible run where I killed SHODAN with Standard 4, Modify 2 Pistol (unmodded) in about 2-3 seconds (not counting the time spent throwing ICE Picks at her). It's arguably the best weapon in the game, if you factor in it's availability. All but OSA Agents get access to it for free. Ammo for it is plentiful. And there are so many pistols just lying around the game that you can easily just keep swapping out broken ones for working ones until you get to 3-4 Maintenance, in order to never have to buy Maintenance tools. What's more, it has access to Armor Piercing Rounds. These specialize in killing exactly the same targets as the Laser Pistol. While AP Rounds are limited in supply, the Pistol can fire in bursts, while the Laser Pistol is stuck on a long recharge cycle. The Pistol can tear through enemies MUCH faster. And early on in the game, you have a fairly generous supply of AP Ammo as long as you're conservative and save it for needed targets (Droids can take standard ammo, and midwives can take the wrench). If you get the Grenade Launcher (Marine Start or Repair 2), that's another weapon you've got for turrets and bots. While you don't get any early EMP Grenades (I think) the GL does enough damage that it fulfills the same niche of doing lots of damage to your toughest enemies.
So the Laser Pistol competes with the other two Tier 1 weapons you get against the hardest early game enemies, only really winning out in terms of 'free' ammo. However, the ammo isn't really free. Going through the Cargo Bays, a Bot took 80 energy out of my Laser Pistol. Turrets took 40. That's a bot and a turret, or three turrets for between 2 and 5 Maintenance. The ammo may be replaceable, but you're not running back and forth from the recharger that often. So if you want more frequent use, you need batteries or Electron Cascade. And at that point in the game, you probably aren't swimming in batteries, and Electron Cascade is out of reach for someone with poitns in Energy Weapons and Repair. Simply put, you still need to use melee, other weapons, or some rare 'ammo' to keep going. The Laser Pistol also has the worst DPS, and in an extended fight is much more reliant on cover than a Pistol with burst mode AP round, or a Grenade Launcher. Both of which are also pretty darn good at handling biological targets (though you're not realistically using grenades against hybrids and monkeys).
Now don't get me wrong. I really like the Laser Pistol. But it has some pretty serious competition in the 'killing early to mid-game robots' category. And so that's why I call it a niche weapon. It directly competes with the other Tier 1 weapons, and it's strongest claim to fame is it's ammo system. That's a niche. It's a good niche. It's a niche I like, but it's still a niche. Throw in the fact that Heavy and Standard Weapons will happily get you through the whole game on their own, while Energy Weapons has an entire level where it's utterly useless, and that doesn't help the case against being a niche weapon.
And so it just doesn't make sense that you get the Laser Pistol so late without the Marine Start, while the GL is available halfway through Med/Sci with Repair. For reference, once I got the Laser Pistol from Engineering working, I fought 3 turrets and 2 midwives before I got the working one. I could have skipped one turret and one midwife from the Engineering 'tunnel'. I could have skipped the two turrets guarding the recharger and OS station by running by them if I had to, and coming back later with the Laser Pistol. It's honestly not really worth getting Repair just for the Laser Pistol (though it IS worth getting repair for the EMP Rifle, given it's ridiculous Maintenance requirement, but oddly low Repair requirement), because there's so little you really get from it before you find the working one. If you want a lore appropriate place to stick a broken one, put it outside the armory (or behind the forcefield) in Med/Sci. And I'd leave a working one in the Cargo Bay areas outside the actual Cargo Bay, so you have it against the small army of droids, bots, and turrets.
But not against the three turrets guarding the entrance to the Cargo Bay, which are a nightmare for an OSA character that didn't dip into Pistols, or really anyone who ran out of AP ammo by then. I think that's a nice extra place to reward Repair users, in addition to it's various uses in Med/Sci.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 28. August 2024, 22:37:13 »^What Sines & the others said..
Please put laserpistol - broken - into very first engineering room :/
It would be great atmospheric wise, putting the player into a new environment whilst also giving him/her a new interesting item..
The transition between med/sci & eng always felt a bit unrewarding.
Please put laserpistol - broken - into very first engineering room :/
It would be great atmospheric wise, putting the player into a new environment whilst also giving him/her a new interesting item..
The transition between med/sci & eng always felt a bit unrewarding.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 28. August 2024, 14:44:32 »yes, and the player can grab the first one pretty much right before eng2 is done, even though it would be extremely useful if available before the cargo bays are entered.
as long as the player has the repair skill, that is - I think I'll move it to one of the corpses in the Command Control room, or one of the crates in the Shuttle Bay, and include the change in the Repairman mod.
RSD adds it to Storage Room 4, which might be a good place for it since it's still somewhat out of the way if you're beelining through engineering.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 28. August 2024, 14:18:40 »I also saw the Wormskin Armor and OS Station 4 got moved up so you could spend more time with them. Any changes like that to other weapons? Laser Pistol always struck me as coming WAY too late given what it's for.
I agree. If there was a mini mod to give a working laser pistol earlier on, then I'd probably have it permanently enabled in my SS2 mod menu. Probably the more hardcore fans of the game wouldn't like this as they might feel that it effects the flow of the earlier parts of the game, or at least they would want the laser pistol to be placed in a specific area with maybe a challenge/objective needing to be completed before you can access the pistol.
But if someone is looking for a new mod project, then please consider the addition of an early, working, laser pistol.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 28. August 2024, 13:13:28 »The laser pistol is not a niche weapon. It's very effective against mechanical and cyborg targets and has essentially infinite free ammo available.
Posted by: Sines
« on: 28. August 2024, 13:05:52 »Wrote a big long post, didn't answer the security question, and didn't notice it didn't go through!
Short version, I made it through Engineering. And even the broken laser pistol is too late. It's at the end of the Cargo Bays, at which point you've made it through the part of the early game where you most need something like the laser pistol. The only way to get a Laser Pistol when it's even kind of competitive with the Pistol is the Marine EW start. Without that, it's very firmly stuck in the 'nice to have' category, and wouldn't be worth it without the Rapier and EMP Rifle.
I honestly think a WORKING laser pistol at the start of Engineering (before you encounter the first turret in Engineering) would be fine. You could even place it in Med/Sci. It's too much of a niche weapon, and AP Pistol rounds exist, for me to think it needs to be progress gated in any meaningful way. It wouldn't even nerf the EW Marine start too much, since you charge all pistols at once, so having extra ones is pretty handy and emphasizes not needing ammo. I've got more to say to defend my argument, but don't feel like typing that all up again right now
Short version, I made it through Engineering. And even the broken laser pistol is too late. It's at the end of the Cargo Bays, at which point you've made it through the part of the early game where you most need something like the laser pistol. The only way to get a Laser Pistol when it's even kind of competitive with the Pistol is the Marine EW start. Without that, it's very firmly stuck in the 'nice to have' category, and wouldn't be worth it without the Rapier and EMP Rifle.
I honestly think a WORKING laser pistol at the start of Engineering (before you encounter the first turret in Engineering) would be fine. You could even place it in Med/Sci. It's too much of a niche weapon, and AP Pistol rounds exist, for me to think it needs to be progress gated in any meaningful way. It wouldn't even nerf the EW Marine start too much, since you charge all pistols at once, so having extra ones is pretty handy and emphasizes not needing ammo. I've got more to say to defend my argument, but don't feel like typing that all up again right now
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. August 2024, 12:38:59 »yes, and the player can grab the first one pretty much right before eng2 is done, even though it would be extremely useful if available before the cargo bays are entered.
as long as the player has the repair skill, that is - I think I'll move it to one of the corpses in the Command Control room, or one of the crates in the Shuttle Bay, and include the change in the Repairman mod.
as long as the player has the repair skill, that is - I think I'll move it to one of the corpses in the Command Control room, or one of the crates in the Shuttle Bay, and include the change in the Repairman mod.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 27. August 2024, 19:36:29 »In vanilla SS2 laser pistols are located in eng2, hydro2, ops3, ops4, rec2, rec3, command1, and rick1.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 27. August 2024, 17:36:39 »I seem to remember the broken laser pistol being in cargo storage 4, meaning you can access it immediately upon entering engineering if you beeline towards it.
It might be an RSD change, though.
It might be an RSD change, though.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 27. August 2024, 13:44:23 »I was thinking about moving the broken laspistol to the start of eng2, but ultimately decided against it. maybe I should rethink this. either way, minimodding this is trivial, so I'll do that tomorrow I guess.
It is the same thing i was thinking through for several time.. It would be perfect imo to place a Lasgun/Apollo H4 Argon-Suspension Laser Pistol® already in the very first room of engineering when entering by ladder through med/sci maintenance shaft.
Imo it would feel just right & first appearance in vanilla is way too late as well (like stasis field generator etc. it would be fine if this was also addressed by the rosodude in RSD or whatever that mod is called if it isn't is already..).
Maybe even some change to the description text of Lasergun to implicate that it could be also used as some sort of welding device in-universe? So it would make more sense/seem more natural having them lying around in engineering & it would maybe explain why it's relatively weak compared to all those ballistic weapons + it would give more immersion.. :3
By the way..
It would be nice to have the coherent laserbeam integrated in SPC or having it at least available to the public as a less occluded minimod in its own thread imo:
https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=11710.msg139566;topicseen#new
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 27. August 2024, 08:27:23 »first working shotgun is on medsci2 in the secret area near Watts' office, next one is on medsci1 in the area with a charging station close to Watts.
I was thinking about moving the broken laspistol to the start of eng2, but ultimately decided against it. maybe I should rethink this. either way, minimodding this is trivial, so I'll do that tomorrow I guess.
I was thinking about moving the broken laspistol to the start of eng2, but ultimately decided against it. maybe I should rethink this. either way, minimodding this is trivial, so I'll do that tomorrow I guess.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 27. August 2024, 07:35:16 »Honestly, I'd be okay with an earlier broken laser pistol. Maybe in one of the apartments in medsci2. Getting the basic tier weapon after the rest makes no sense.
@RoSoDude consider this a RSD feature suggestion.
I think the first non-broken shotgun is either the one in r&d (can't remember if it's broken or not), or one in engineering somewhere. I think it's either in cargo bays or command control. Is there a working one in front of the door to fluidics control?
@RoSoDude consider this a RSD feature suggestion.
I think the first non-broken shotgun is either the one in r&d (can't remember if it's broken or not), or one in engineering somewhere. I think it's either in cargo bays or command control. Is there a working one in front of the door to fluidics control?
Posted by: Sines
« on: 27. August 2024, 02:28:44 »I am taking repair, so I'll have the Engineering one shortly. And I agree that it's odd that a working shotgun is available halfway through Med/Sci when the broken laser pistol isn't available until halfway through Engineering. Especially since you get a broken Grenade Launcher before the Shotgun (Albeit, not by much), and I'd consider the GL much more powerful than the Laser Pistol (though very limited by ammo at that point). That's all I'm saying. I know you can get it earlier with Marine start, but I think a broken one should be available in Med/Sci just like the Grenade Launcher. It would also make repair a bit better when it's good for getting both of those weapons early.
I just don't think the Laser Pistol needs to be as progress gated as it is. Sure it has advantages over the toughest enemies at that point in the game, but so does AP Rounds in the Pistol. Yes, it's 'unlimited' ammo is a big strength, but I feel like investing in a weapon type to specialize in bot-fighting should be rewarded with being better than the pistol. That's all together enough that I think, design-wise, it should come sooner in the game. By contrast, if the point of Marine is to have access to early GL or LP, then I'd move back the broken Grenade Launcher (not a fan of this, but it's a thought to consider). And I was only thinking of all this since SCP decided to move OS4 and Worm Skin armor earlier into the game (Which I think are overall good ideas, even though I was never bothered with the late OS4). Without a Marine start, the Laser Pistol loses some of it's best spots to be really handy, just like it's hard to get excited about the Worm Skin armor for pretty much just The Body of the Many. Though obviously the LP having one option to be obtained early is a big difference.
Out of curiosity, if that Shotgun is broken, where's the first unbroken one for people not using Repair? I think there's a working one in the nacelles in Engineering? That would match up with the placement of the Laser Rapier, the 2nd Tier 2 weapon you get.
I just don't think the Laser Pistol needs to be as progress gated as it is. Sure it has advantages over the toughest enemies at that point in the game, but so does AP Rounds in the Pistol. Yes, it's 'unlimited' ammo is a big strength, but I feel like investing in a weapon type to specialize in bot-fighting should be rewarded with being better than the pistol. That's all together enough that I think, design-wise, it should come sooner in the game. By contrast, if the point of Marine is to have access to early GL or LP, then I'd move back the broken Grenade Launcher (not a fan of this, but it's a thought to consider). And I was only thinking of all this since SCP decided to move OS4 and Worm Skin armor earlier into the game (Which I think are overall good ideas, even though I was never bothered with the late OS4). Without a Marine start, the Laser Pistol loses some of it's best spots to be really handy, just like it's hard to get excited about the Worm Skin armor for pretty much just The Body of the Many. Though obviously the LP having one option to be obtained early is a big difference.
Out of curiosity, if that Shotgun is broken, where's the first unbroken one for people not using Repair? I think there's a working one in the nacelles in Engineering? That would match up with the placement of the Laser Rapier, the 2nd Tier 2 weapon you get.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 27. August 2024, 00:55:23 »So you didn't take repair, didn't pick the marine start, and now you're complaining that you can't get an early laser pistol because you specifically made the worst possible build for getting it?
This is partially why I recommend RSD. One of the biggest issues in the game is that the second-tier Standard weapon (the shotgun) is available much earlier than a working first-tier weapon for both heavy and energy.
RSD makes a few changes here which you might like (and I'd recommend SCP to break the shotgun available in the hidey-hole in medsci2 as well), as well as making repair more useful and worth picking up, since repairing batteries is very useful for an energy player.
This is partially why I recommend RSD. One of the biggest issues in the game is that the second-tier Standard weapon (the shotgun) is available much earlier than a working first-tier weapon for both heavy and energy.
RSD makes a few changes here which you might like (and I'd recommend SCP to break the shotgun available in the hidey-hole in medsci2 as well), as well as making repair more useful and worth picking up, since repairing batteries is very useful for an energy player.
Posted by: Sines
« on: 26. August 2024, 21:59:37 »Oh I know about that, and I've done it before some times. But without that, you don't get a broken one until midway through Engineering, and a working one in Hydroponics. The working grenade launcher doesn't come any sooner, but a broken one is found halfway through Med/Sci. Basically the only reason I ever go for a Marine start over Navy or OSA is just because I want the Laser Pistol early.Do a Marine career and select +1 Energy Weapons, so you start with the laser pistol.
And I'm a bit partial to the PSI/Energy build, so a Marine start is a bit awkward. Doing one with this patch (and some graphical ones) right now, mostly just running by every turret or bot I can, because I went OSA start, and whittling them down with Cryokinesis just ain't worth the effort. If there weren't enough AP Rounds on Med/Sci to be able to take down most (if not all) of the hard targets, I'd get the delay, but it just struck me as one of those little things that make the base game pistol feel so fantastic due to it's availability.
Not a big deal or anything, but with things being moved around sooner, I'd stick a broken Laser Pistol on Med/Sci (maybe next to the turret guarded charging machine to teach the players about how rechargers work for things besides mission objectives. Throws in an earlier reason to get Repair too) and a working one in place of the broken one on Engineering.
Ah well, kinda having fun running past all the turrets and bots while I work my way up to the broken one in Engineering. And I was going to pick up Repair to keep an EMP Rifle running without Maintenance 6 anyway.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 26. August 2024, 04:05:32 »Sheesh, unpowered powered armor only provides 10% protection in SCP, less than even light armor. Providing 0% protection when unpowered would be nonsensical, since it still physically exists around your body.
RSD makes some questionable changes itself, like giving worm piles higher defense than rumblers.
RSD makes some questionable changes itself, like giving worm piles higher defense than rumblers.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 26. August 2024, 02:40:55 »If you're used to playing on Impossible and care about gameplay, balance, etc, you should wait for RSD to be updated, it changes a lot (including making the Grenade Launcher the second-tier weapon in Heavy and rebalancing it) and reverts many of SCP's more questionable gameplay changes (like the unpowered power armour protection). I don't know if @RoSoDude is going to update it anytime soon, though.
Do a Marine career and select +1 Energy Weapons, so you start with the laser pistol.
Laser Pistol always struck me as coming WAY too late given what it's for.
Do a Marine career and select +1 Energy Weapons, so you start with the laser pistol.
Posted by: Sines
« on: 26. August 2024, 02:03:50 »Was it? Hrm... it's been literal years since I've used it, and even longer since I used it on a Rumbler or Psi Reaver. So maybe my memory is just really bad.
Welp, I'm embarrassing myself, so I think I'll just stop for now before I say more silly things.
Welp, I'm embarrassing myself, so I think I'll just stop for now before I say more silly things.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 26. August 2024, 01:17:03 »The grenade launcher never does "massive" damage. Most mid-tier and higher enemies require multiple grenades to kill unless you've taken every mod and upgrade available to increase its damage. In vanilla SS1 the un-modded grenade launcher is basically useless.
Posted by: Sines
« on: 26. August 2024, 00:07:00 »Oh gosh darn it, that's stupid of me. Must have gotten distracted or something. My bad.
As far as the Grenade Launcher goes though, the entry says it does the same damage it did before, but the first Mod now does 10%. What I mean when I say it got buffed is that you don't need the Modification to do massive damage. It just does that without it. Now you don't need to buy Modify 1 or use up a precious FE Device to get that damage. Part of the reason I went looking for mods in the first place was because I thought the GL was too powerful, and wanted something that would make me feel like I wasn't cheating when using it. I'm actually curious, did the devs ever mention that they intended it to be that powerful, and didn't realized they broke the base damage because they tried it out with Modify 1 instead?
As far as the Grenade Launcher goes though, the entry says it does the same damage it did before, but the first Mod now does 10%. What I mean when I say it got buffed is that you don't need the Modification to do massive damage. It just does that without it. Now you don't need to buy Modify 1 or use up a precious FE Device to get that damage. Part of the reason I went looking for mods in the first place was because I thought the GL was too powerful, and wanted something that would make me feel like I wasn't cheating when using it. I'm actually curious, did the devs ever mention that they intended it to be that powerful, and didn't realized they broke the base damage because they tried it out with Modify 1 instead?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 25. August 2024, 22:55:06 »They aren't. All changes to weapons and OS upgrades are summarized in the "Weapon Changes" and "OS Upgrade Changes" sections of the readme.I can read the change log, but I'd have to read over the entire thing and changes to a weapon or skill might be in several different places
All stat changes are noted explicitly. For example, the AR entry is:some summaries are pretty vague (the AR being noted as made weaker, without any numbers)
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Assault Rifle
- Repair skill minimum requirement decreased from 4 to 3.
- Degrade rate increased from 0.5 to 0.65.
- Base damage for all ammo types reduced from 10 to 8.Dude, have you even looked at the SCP documentation since Beta 5?I saw that Grenade Launcher odd got buffed? Now it doesn't even need Modification 1 to do massive damage. I figure it'd have it's Modify 1 damage toned down to just 10%
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Grenade Launcher
- Fixed modification level 1 giving a 100% damage bonus. Now gives a 10% damage bonus,
just like all the other weapons. To compensate for this, the base damage multiplier
has been increased so the fully modded damage output is about the same as before.Posted by: Sines
« on: 25. August 2024, 22:30:03 »That change document on SCP is pretty huge. It mentions some gameplay changes to try to balance things. What are peoples general opinion of it, and is there a simple place to summarize what was changed and how? I can read the change log, but I'd have to read over the entire thing and changes to a weapon or skill might be in several different places, and some summaries are pretty vague (the AR being noted as made weaker, without any numbers) Given how many weapons have invisible stats (damage and damage modifiers in particular) it might not be easy to spot, and as I prefer to play on Impossible, I don't have too much wiggle room if I want to get a weapon skill up to 6.
I saw that Grenade Launcher odd got buffed? Now it doesn't even need Modification 1 to do massive damage. I figure it'd have it's Modify 1 damage toned down to just 10% like everything else and so it wouldn't be such an absurdly good weapon. That seemed like an odd choice to me.
I also saw the Wormskin Armor and OS Station 4 got moved up so you could spend more time with them. Any changes like that to other weapons? Laser Pistol always struck me as coming WAY too late given what it's for.
I saw that Grenade Launcher odd got buffed? Now it doesn't even need Modification 1 to do massive damage. I figure it'd have it's Modify 1 damage toned down to just 10% like everything else and so it wouldn't be such an absurdly good weapon. That seemed like an odd choice to me.
I also saw the Wormskin Armor and OS Station 4 got moved up so you could spend more time with them. Any changes like that to other weapons? Laser Pistol always struck me as coming WAY too late given what it's for.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 25. August 2024, 02:10:22 »Distinguishable Implants has been obsolete since SCP Beta 5.
This isn't entirely true, since Distinguishable Implants uses a different colour scheme from SCP, but for the average player they probably just want to use SCP.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 24. August 2024, 18:00:14 »That is true, in much the same sense that Team Fortress 2 and Portal are "incompatible." SCP and SecMod are both complete map and gamesys replacements to the base game, so it's nonsensical to consider even the notion of compatibility between them.I thought all versions of SCP were incompatible with Secmod?
So someone going so far as to rename SCP to remind themself of this logical impossibility is... bizarre.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 24. August 2024, 16:13:55 »Distinguishable Implants has been obsolete since SCP Beta 5.
OK, thanks. I will delete it.
Med 2 Forcefield Rehack very likely has been broken since SCP Beta 5.
OK, I will delete it, thanks.
What on god's green earth is "SCP b6 (NOT Secmod 3 compat)"?
Shock 2 Community Patch Beta 6. I thought all versions of SCP were incompatible with Secmod?
Also, just a reminder that you shouldn't ever use Randomiser - Full and Randomiser - Light at the same time, so you should probably delete one of them.
I know. I just installed them all, so if I wanted to use one of them (and only one at a time of course) then it was immediately available.
I think you're the only person on the planet who doesn't use the AIO version of Coloured Laser Rapiers
I will try the version you mention, thanks.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 24. August 2024, 15:48:47 »Yeah I've never heard of SCP b6 either.
Also, just a reminder that you shouldn't ever use Randomiser - Full and Randomiser - Light at the same time, so you should probably delete one of them.
I think you're the only person on the planet who doesn't use the AIO version of Coloured Laser Rapiers
Also, just a reminder that you shouldn't ever use Randomiser - Full and Randomiser - Light at the same time, so you should probably delete one of them.
I think you're the only person on the planet who doesn't use the AIO version of Coloured Laser Rapiers
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 24. August 2024, 15:29:09 »Distinguishable Implants has been obsolete since SCP Beta 5.
Med 2 Forcefield Rehack very likely has been broken since SCP Beta 5.
What on god's green earth is "SCP b6 (NOT Secmod 3 compat)"?
Med 2 Forcefield Rehack very likely has been broken since SCP Beta 5.
What on god's green earth is "SCP b6 (NOT Secmod 3 compat)"?
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 24. August 2024, 15:09:06 »Can someone cast an eye over my mod setup, please, and see if there are any problems or incompatibilities, or recommended things I should add.
I've also included my fan mission list, are there any that should be removed, or others that should be added.
And is RoSodude's Rebalanced Skills and Disciplines v2.03 still incompatible, please?
Thanks.
I've also included my fan mission list, are there any that should be removed, or others that should be added.
And is RoSodude's Rebalanced Skills and Disciplines v2.03 still incompatible, please?
Thanks.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 24. August 2024, 14:31:06 »Are you calling forum posts "web pages"?
Yep, sorry for any confusion caused.
And are you seriously suggesting that people delete the dev threads from Engineering when a project is released as a completed mod?
I just thought the older threads might prove confusing sometimes. If not, then great.
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