SS2 Source Code

[6628f5a8cf02bedx]

Some tweets from Stephen Kick concerning the SS2 source code and future plans to release it:

https://twitter.com/pripyatbeast/status/1042674927793401856
When asked if SS2 will get the same treatment as SS1 with the Source Port:

This is the plan - we love the work that the NewDark team has done but as they've decided to stay anonymous we'll have to take things into our own hands to update SS2 moving forward.

https://twitter.com/pripyatbeast/status/1043191310939607041
When asked if that means he managed to track down SS2 source code:

Yes, it took a long time but we seem to have the complete source.

https://twitter.com/pripyatbeast/status/1043311190049312768
When asked where did he find the source code if they plan to release it open source:

I can't disclose that right now - but we do plan on releasing the code like we did with Shock 1

https://twitter.com/pripyatbeast/status/1042823964542660608
When asked "That's a bummer. The issue is that they don't want to share their fork's source, correct? Have they given a reason as to why they won't? Would a GPL release of the 2010 leak help?"

That's what I'm guessing. We are planning to release the code publicly as we have with Shock 1.

[6628f5a8cf23bvoodoo47]

interesting - I'd guess they tracked down the copy that has been handed over to EA/Eidos by an ex-dev circa 2010? I need to re-read the TTLG topic.

anyway, on one hand, a public release of the original SS2 source code is undeniably a good thing, but on the other hand, switching the GOG/steam build to their own fork means going back to 2012 as far as fixes and mod compatibility go.

[6628f5a8cf3d4Kolya]

Whoo! I hope it gets a GPL release.

[6628f5a8cf8ceRoSoDude]

interesting - I'd guess they tracked down the copy that has been handed over to EA/Eidos by an ex-dev circa 2010? I need to re-read the TTLG topic.

anyway, on one hand, a public release of the original SS2 source code is undeniably a good thing, but on the other hand, switching the GOG/steam build to their own fork means going back to 2012 as far as fixes and mod compatibility goes.

This is what I'm worried about -- what will be the status of mods like SCP, exactly? Will it simply entail that the game be manually patched with SS2Tool again? Not much of an upgrade for most users then, I'd think.

[6628f5a8cfaecvoodoo47]

I don't think it really changes anything - people who don't care about mods will stick with the official build, and the rest will have to use the tool to patch up to the latest NewDark just like they do now, and did since the beginning of time. the official build will also most likely have native linux and mac versions, and fixed multiplayer, and that's not a bad thing.

next to zero chance of SHTUP/SCP being available semi-officially on steam or GOG like Deus Ex Revision though, as those are NewDark exclusive, and probably always will be. pre-NewDark mods like SHTUP beta6, Rebirth 02 (or maybe even 03) will most likely work, as long as the resource loader is kept intact.

so to make it short, this is good news for people who wanted a native linux and mac version and fixed MP, and bad news for people who wanted mods on steam. as always, you can't have it all.

[6628f5a8cfc7bRoSoDude]

Thanks for the explanation. Since I generally disagree with the idea of official mods on Steam/GOG anyway, this doesn't affect me then. Good for wider support and fixes -- I was just worried about version branching and future incompatibilities since I'm not very educated on the technical differences between builds and intend to stick with NewDark mods.

[6628f5a8cfe9eicemann]

Firstly this is great news that they tracked down the whole source. If I remember right they are quite determined to fix the multiplayer side of things. If they do indeed fix that then awesome. Beyond that, we're going to end up with 2 source ports (NewDark and theirs). But meh the Doom community does fine under multiple source ports. I'm sure we can too.

At first NewDark will be the superior of the 2, as its had QUITE the head start, but whose to say in another year or so.

[6628f5a8d004avoodoo47]

yeah, two ports are not really a problem, however I have my doubts about the official one matching NewDark anytime soon - it's probably going to take much longer than just a year or two.

oh, and almost forgot, this means achievements almost for sure, so good news for all who are into that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U

[6628f5a8d036eJDoran]

It's great news about the SS2 source code release, and an official source code port release too, of course, but I'll probably stick with the current (New Dark) build. I don't care about SS2's multiplayer, so unless they add something radically good to the single player game that can't be incorporated (by the current SS2 modders on this forum, or by another third party) into New Dark, then I'm happy with the current version.

As long as NO-ONE alters the EMP rifle though - it's my favourite SS2 weapon, and I'd hate to see it spoilt. The EMP rifle is brilliant because fully upgraded it makes such short work of robots, including and especially one-shotting the ****ing protocol droids  , plus it has (it feels like!) a zillion shots between recharges  ). If only you could use it to melee the spiders to death!

Seiously, though, what changes would anyone like to see in SS2 now that the source is likely due to be released, and presumably Night Dive will be looking for good ideas for improving the source port? SCP and co. have fixed most of the complaints that don't involve actually remodelling parts of the Von Braun or Rickenbacker. I'd like to see more stuff added to the living quarters, more shelves, books, unique pictures and posters, etc, to make the areas seem genuinely lived in. It wouldn't alter the gameplay at all (none of the new stuff would be interactive or able to be picked up) but would add to the immersion of the game's atmosphere. When you walk through blood or worms or something, you should leave a few footprints (again, this adds to the immersion, ask anyone who's played Duke Nukem 3D!), and personally I'd like to see the grav-shafts changed to normal lifts (elevators) or stairs, since I think grav-shafts would cause problems with people who have acrophobia (plus if you'e near the top of one when the power fails then you fall and die), but that would involve a lot of changes to the games levels and probably lots of people would prefer they be left in as (to them) the grav-shafts are part of SS2's style. Fair enough, of course.

[6628f5a8d04e4voodoo47]

those aren't changes that would require source code modifications, just the editor and some guy with a fair bit of time. an example of a source port feature suggestion would be "make all the lighting dynamic", "add tessellation", or "support internet multiplayer".

[6628f5a8d05f4icemann]

Built in mod and FM support inside the actual game itself would be about the only thing I'd like. Yes I know we have the excellent loader, but something in-game be nicer. More a want than a need though.

[6628f5a8d070evoodoo47]

I actually like them being external. keeps things fast and clean (and because the source code for both loaders is public, it's possible to tweak and modify them without having to touch the main executable).

[6628f5a8d0bb9Olfred]

My absolute dream would be to have non hard scripted bone structures for animations. That would really open up some possibilites.

Oh, and there is that nasty bug in NewDark which couses trouble on 3d sorting models with transparency, IIRC.

[6628f5a8d0ce0voodoo47]

it's more of a feature I believe, if you mean transparent hollow objects (the wormskin armor), and combo objects with both solid and transparent parts (trees).

[6628f5a8d0deaOlfred]

Ah no, I've meant when you have several world objects, it doesn't always render right.

[6628f5a8d0ee9voodoo47]

that should work properly as long as there are no bad props on the objects (like RenderOrder, which should only be used in very specific situations). any examples?

[6628f5a8d0fe8fascinate4]

This is a great news! I was dreaming about it. Finally it would be possible to make custom anims for First-Person weapons.

[6628f5a8d1364Olfred]

that should work properly as long as there are no bad props on the objects (like RenderOrder, which should only be used in very specific situations). any examples?

I think we had a discussion about that in one of the engineering threads I'm active in. Possibly the fixed model one.

[6628f5a8d14acvoodoo47]

all I remember at the moment is the wormskin armor (an edge case scenario) and the trees (basically, transparency should only be used on 2D objects that are intended to be transparent, like windows, decals, leaves etc, if you apply it on anything else, you are asking for trouble).

I might dig through the obj fix topic later, but oof, it's 77 pages.

[6628f5a8d1938JDoran]

Since the SS2 source code release would allow for more comprehensive changes to the games mechanics, then an interesting System Shock 2 mod might be a sort of "Half-System Shock" style thing. This would be where at a certain point in the game, an army ship docks with the Von Braun (or the Rickenbacker) and the special forces marines (well armed and well trained humans) emerge who have orders to destroy every living creature (including humans, so as to prevent rumours of the Von Braun event from reaching the public). That way, you'd have to fight against very competent humans as well as the other horrors in the game, and, as in Half-Life, you'd occasionally come across a battle between humans and non-humans, and you'd be able to choice whether to join in the fight, or wait until it's over and kill the survivors (since whoever wins, they will still try to kill you), or use the chaos of the fight to sneak past them and avoid fighting altogether.

I think this would necessitate adding to or enlarging the playing areas, to allow for more encounters with the soldiers, or maybe creating a couple of new levels for the game, plus maybe a mission where you have to fight your way through the soldiers' ship to get something that's either game objective critical, or a super weapon to help you through the game.

Fighting against the soldiers would be more first person shooter than anything, both when you encounter lone enemies, or in small groups, but also when you encounter areas where a larger group of soldiers have set up a check point or similar. This would make the game longer, and could be used for more randomized content as the soldiers could be at different points in every game. I'm not too sure how

You'd probably need an in-game reason why you (the player) wants to prevent the soldiers from gaining control of the Von Braun, otherwise, aside from the fact that the soldiers want to kill you, you'd be glad that they were there and were killing the non-human enemies. Shodan, or whoever she's pretending to be at that time could say something like "I've intercepted a transmission from the soldiers' ship to their Earth-side superiors. The ship's platoon has been told to bring back the Von Braun in one piece, as the mutations' varying levels of being could be used to massively increase the army's current levels of chemical and biological warfare. I don't think I have to tell you that this would be unspeakably bad for the innocent human population of the Earth if this was allowed to happen. You mush destroy the Von Braun to prevent it falling into the immoral hands of the soldiers' masters".

System Shock 2's game engine might not be ideal for a straight first person shooter (though it wouldn't be too bad, either), but the source code would allow things to be altered where necessary.

I'm ust daydreaming, and admittedly it would go very much against the core SS2 gameplay (and likely be less than great to play too), but it might have been interesting. The soldiers could also have android support troops for you to use your energy weapons on, and also for you to hack so they would fight on your side.

[6628f5a8d1a45voodoo47]

again, this doesn't require a source port, just a mod/fan mission.

[6628f5a8d1d55JDoran]

again, this doesn't require a source port, just a mod/fan mission.

Oh, fair enough. I was thinking it might require a source port so that people could change the game's various systems, things like adding group based A.I. for the soldiers, a more detailed system of pathfinding/nodes so the soldiers could decide when to crouch and peer over or around cover, etc

[6628f5a8d1e75voodoo47]

you could need additional functionality for better AI - but I'm guessing you could accomplish that by using custom scripts as well.

[6628f5a8d2120Olfred]

I might dig through the obj fix topic later, but oof, it's 77 pages.

Just found it. I was on my smartphone with mobile data. And that is slow and actually doing something productive on a smartphone is just sluggish.