SS2 TF's Secmod 2.8 [obsolete]

[6668300551051Primitive Primate]

Oh? That's kinda neat.

[666830055156fThiefsieFool]

Check the readme for the inventory combinations on that.
Update is still coming soon, just taking more time because some big* stuff is being added.

*

[66683005516a4Primitive Primate]

Don't stress it. I really like Secmod so I don't want anything rushed and half-assed

[66683005518a0System]

Image: http://systemshock2.ucoz.com/_fr/1/9599288.png     

[6668300551ea1Join2]

I'm playing this right now and it's...fucking fantastic!
As far as I am concerned, this is the .gamesys/.gam mod from here on out. One and only baby.
...it reminds me rather a lot of my own mod for Deus Ex.

Weaponry:

-Modified "animations" are excellent (all done via code, moving of vectors right?).
-Weapon effects are a great improvement.
-Weapon modding. Fantastic job. Now the modify has worth and the game has more depth. It's what I've always wanted, only it's a touch too restrictive: Modification level 3 would have been nice, and another option that requires level 6 modify. Still, thank you. Also with three levels of modification you'd probably be way too powerful, so I guess you made the right choice.
-The new weapons...well I only tried the Plasma Uzi. I cannot appreciate the new weapons though because they do not seem to included in the next weapon/previous weapon cycle, and I refuse to use "shortcuts" (anything where I have to take my hand off WASD is a no-go, which I have to do to reach 6-9 for example). Am I missing something?

AI:

-Great work on the Hybrids, they're actually a challenge. I think you buffed the anim rate of the sideways swing up way too far though. I don't have a problem with this from a gameplay standpoint, but it is a little immersion breaking.
-Security droids are awesome.
-Rumblers fixed up.
-Cameras, wow excellent job + making security alerts require hacking to disable.
-Cyborg Assassins, you gave them laser rapiers! All thoughts I had for a  potential mod for this game and you'd already done them and more, sitting under my nose all this time. I'm annoyed I haven't seen enough talk regarding this mod.


Effects and audio design:

A mixed bag in my opinion.

Positive:

-gibbing
-weapon effects.
-Interaction effects and other stuff I'm not remembering.

Negative:

-Hate the radiation. vanilla was better. new rad effects hold your hand and look weird.
-Fire looks odd.
-Eating and drinking effects, you should have left vanilla. If you chug a load of sodas in succession goggles has the biggest orgasm for example.

RPG systems & balance:

Excellent job.

-Repair, hacking, modify & research all have much needed worth and extra depth.
-The OS upgrades are much better balanced.
-New weapon upgrading is nice as previously mentioned.
-Haven't been using much psi but I expect more of the same.

Bugs:

-I extracted both the tacticool wrench and laser pistol fix to the location of all my installed mods but they do not work, stuck with the old ugly ones
-Laser pistol does not change colour sometimes (not sure on the conditions for triggering this, something death related I think).
-AI sometimes teleport unintentionally. I have no idea what's causing this but it's most noticeable when battling the Assassins. They twitch all over the place. Happens with hybrids and spiders occasionally too.
-Weapon modify overlay seems to have minor issues.
-I'm not sure if this is a bug, but medical units/tables say they are in need of repair yet I can still use them.
-There seems to be problems, more so than there was vanilla, with the next weapon/previous weapon cycles.

Criticism/general feedback:

-I'm not a fan of the idea of sending players on a headless goose chase looking for quest items. Sometimes I really liked what you did, other times it's just a headless goose chase looking for small keycards in large levels that were previously placed in intuitive places. Deck 5 Athletics sector card key namely.
-New objects are nice and obviously vital in achieving balance of systems and adding more depth, though the models/skins sometimes leave a lot to be desired.
-Some of the effects as previously mentioned.
-Anti-Immersive Sim design: you broke the shock design rule by having the player able to walk right up to NPCs at that start in the noodle bar. 
Other than this and some of the aforementioned less than desirable effects it stays for the most part true.


In conclusion. very nice work man. I will be recommending this. I want to give it a 10/10, but the rare instances of anti-Im Sim design and some shitty effects makes me lean toward 9.5, but that rounds up to a 10 anyway
Thanks for your work. I regret not playing this sooner, but I did say I'd get around to it eventually.

[6668300552065voodoo47]

the thing with the laser pistol is actually save/load related, and a fix is already available, so it will probably be fixed in the next version of Secmod.

[66683005521c7Join2]

Oh, turns out the mod is a collaboration between Thiefsie Fool and Nameless Voice, so thank you to NV too.
I saw the name in the credits but the way it was written I got the impression NV was a minor contributor.

Oh, I'm also not a fan of keeping the ADoaB hybrid inventories. I'll say again that I believe randomizing whether the shell will be unloaded or not is the best solution from both a gameplay and sim design standpoint

[66683005526dcZylonBane]

I'll say again that I believe randomizing whether the shell will be unloaded or not is the best solution from both a gameplay and sim design standpoint

And I'll say again that from a gameplay design perspective it's godawful. Tedium for the sake of tedium.

[6668300552860voodoo47]

watched the SS1 stream? they had to implement an engine hack to make sure the one slug hybrid shotgun would not cause problems. so yeah, it was a bad idea from the beginning (and I'm really, really unhappy that I was not able to dml fix it for the ss2tool 6.0 dml pack).

[666830055299cZylonBane]

Yeah, I should make a transcript of that part. Summarized-- due to the one shell in the shotgun, in playtesting they ended up with dozens of shotguns littering the floors of all the levels. They had to add code to the game just to get rid of the discarded shotguns.

[6668300552bbdvoodoo47]

and the solution is so simple - modifying the hybrid's model just a little to make it look like his hand has partially grown into the shotgun making it an inseparable part of his body and then removing it from his inventory completely would have done the trick - no more shotgun littering, no more shoguns staying on the hybrid even though the player has picked it up.

[6668300552da6Kolya]

Ja ja. And it would fit the theme of the Many growing around and into the Von Braun, which just so happens to look like a huge gun.
And the game's body horror theme... Basically it fits like a glove.

Another solution would have been to give them annelid weapons which are introduced far too late anyway and would have added a lot to the alien nature of the hybrids.

[6668300552ee8Ndrake]

Med/Sci and Engineering would have been too early for annelid weapons.
I think it was a great (and rather bold) decision to stay in the pure horror/cyberpunk register for the first 3 Levels and only then gradually shift to more sci-fi and alien creatures.

[66683005530a0ThiefsieFool]

Thanks for the review, Join Us, pretty good breakdown of the mod's strengths and weaknesses.
The update is still in the works, maybe another week or two, and I think you'll be happy with most of the changes in it, a lot align with your suggestions already.
Agree on the mods' similarity, I'm definitely planning on trying your mod for my next playthrough of DX1, precisely because it seems Secmod-like in scope, I like this type of mod most but good ones are usually in short supply.
Oh and the credits for the mod (bottom of the readme file f.e) are fully accurate, NV can concur.
--
The hybrid shotgun being attached.......mmmm no I don't really agree, having AIs that are connected to items is more interesting and feels more dynamic, that's why I added the mechanic where the hybrid's shotgun is broken or not broken depending on whether he jammed it while firing at you, IIRC the hybrid was supposed to emit a shout to suggest they are just as frustrated by jamming firearms as the player can be, but it never worked properly.

[6668300553243ThiefsieFool]

One of the things being overhauled is the Smartgun model, way back in 2004 or so I was trying to import this Natural Selection smartgun model into SS2 but it was way too high poly to import as a normal object so I had to give up on it and make my own crappy Smartgun model, 10 years later I found the model still on my harddrive somewhere (it seems to be completely gone from the internet now, which is where I looked first) and managed to finally import the thing as a mesh this time, limit planes and all.

The flamer could probably use an update too, if I can find a good model for it.

[666830055377eJoin2]

watched the SS1 stream? they had to implement an engine hack to make sure the one slug hybrid shotgun would not cause problems. so yeah, it was a bad idea from the beginning

Huh? I don't remember this being said. Even so, I don't see why it's a bad idea just because they wrote hacky code for it...it worked in the vanilla game without a hitch.

(and I'm really, really unhappy that I was not able to dml fix it for the ss2tool 6.0 dml pack).

Conversely I'm happy to hear that. 
I don't see why this in particular is singled out when there are tons of mechanics and systems that could be considered to be tedium for the sake of tedium (simulation & strategy). Have you doubled research speeds too? Removed all containers from the game that didn't have anything in them, or make them unfrobable, because it's tedious opening empty containers all the time? And so on...

[6668300553a8cNameless Voice]

The shotgun slug is a bad system because:
1) You can't unload the slug inside the hybrid's inventory, necessitating picking up the shotgun.
2) You need a free slot, necessitating annoying inventory management if you are already full.
3) You can't put the unloaded shotgun back into the hybrid's inventory, so it has to stay around and clutter up the world space.
4) There are a lot of shotgun hybrids, which means that you have to do this very many times, and each time for only a small reward.




As for the credits - they're accurate.  I never worked directly on SecMod, but I helped a lot with the scripting.

[6668300554122ThiefsieFool]

The shotgun slug is a bad system because:
1) You can't unload the slug inside the hybrid's inventory, necessitating picking up the shotgun.
2) You need a free slot, necessitating annoying inventory management if you are already full.
3) You can't put the unloaded shotgun back into the hybrid's inventory, so it has to stay around and clutter up the world space.
4) There are a lot of shotgun hybrids, which means that you have to do this very many times, and each time for only a small reward.

Agreed with this on all accounts, I might have considered adding say a small chance a Hybrid has a shotgun with lots of slugs loaded in it, since that would have addressed a lot of these points, but it complicates badly when combined with the "dynamically breaking shotgun" system so it's not gonna happen.

congratulations on your never-developing mod.  I will suggest politely you replace flamer with an image of the gap between yourself and your ambitions.  Use a photograph of your powers of self-consolation for the smartgun.

Alright guys, whose alt is this. 

[66683005544f4Join2]

The shotgun slug is a bad system because:
1) You can't unload the slug inside the hybrid's inventory, necessitating picking up the shotgun.
2) You need a free slot, necessitating annoying inventory management if you are already full.
3) You can't put the unloaded shotgun back into the hybrid's inventory, so it has to stay around and clutter up the world space.
4) There are a lot of shotgun hybrids, which means that you have to do this very many times, and each time for only a small reward.

It has been years since I even played with the vanilla inventories, but considering this is how the inventory system works in general I'm ashamed I didn't see it. I was wrong.

[66683005548b8Ndrake]

Alright guys, whose alt is this. 

Wow randomly suspecting/accusing people inside the community? I think you just made a troll orgasm.

[6668300554af9Join2]

It actually does appear to be an alt of infrabaron, at least the style of writing is the same: looks like it's spat out by a bot most of the time, but on the rare occasion very human.
His post in this thread is the rare almost-human one, but he/it's been spamming threads in rec that are entirely gibberish.

Primary data loop compromised.

[6668300554c21voodoo47]

aand he is no more.

[6668300554f44ThiefsieFool]

Wow randomly suspecting/accusing people inside the community? I think you just made a troll orgasm.

I Am Sorry About Joke

[6668300555175Join2]

aand he is no more.

Snuffed out by the hacker that created him.