SS2 Straylight ADaOB v0.3.0

[665b440605311Olfred]

But that final boss SHODAN is not really her, it's just some physical body robot. So I guess it's ok for it to be killed that easy through EMP.

And with a better animating system it would be much much easier to create a good model for shodan with medusa like hair.

[665b4406054bbKolya]

@ZB: Really? Where is that screen when you're fighting SHODAN? Where is that column that Goggles stands next to?
It's been a while since I looked at it but I'm quite sure the final cutscene doesn't even take place in the same area and merely keeps the basic look of things.

EDIT: I just watched it again and I see what you mean now. It's nothing that couldn't be worked around though.

[665b440605a37Join2]

It's nothing that couldn't be worked around though.

Yeah, it's Shodan's realm that she can alter at her will....if I am not mistaken. A perfect excuse for some additional creativity and improvements.

I see what you mean, but I don't think it makes the endgame too easy, considering that it requires you to carry EMP weapons all through the BOTM, where they are useless, and ignore all the hints on how to defeat SHODAN.

The only actual EMP-only weapon is the EMP rifle. Laser rapier and laser pistol are just as handy in BOTM as they are anywhere else. Laser rapier is far better than the wrench overall imo. I haven't got all the info, resistances, multipliers etc, but Laser Rapier base damage is much higher than wrench.

You're right though, SCP is a mod for the newbies BUT it is also about balance. Restoring balance increases difficulty in some cases with this game, at least without a complete redesign of systems.

[665b440605c2fHikari]

Everyone' sseen the runner when you're trying to get through to the first room with upgrade units ya?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=149574173

Why is her body on the end of the hall she started running from?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=149574184

[665b440605d50bluemess]

It's not her body, she escapes through the door. The body already lies there when she's passing through. I always wondered if that body supposed to be hers shot by hybrid, and player should not see her run through the door.

[665b440605e48Hikari]

Walked through that who knows how many times and it just occurred to me to ask.

[665b440605f7bJoin2]

Oh. I thought that was her body, the spot she gets shot. She probably does make it through the door though.

@ voodoo, ZB: I'm not a fan of shotgun ammo unloaded in shotgun hybrid inventory. Can you set that back or make it a boolean we can change from the menu or something?

Or randomise whether the gun will be unloaded or vanilla per hybrid.

[665b440606114voodoo47]

yes, but she continues to run and gets through the door, and the hybrid follows, this can be seen through the window if you position yourself close to the left side of the window and lean a bit.

[665b4406062ccDeu sex]

WARNING : this post may contain spoilers.

Hey guys, I appreciate the mod a lot, I played a lot and lot of different combos of skills, and it felt very well balanced , exept one :

emp rifle + electron cascade.

there is no words to express how OP this combo is, i literally run and gunned quake style the second half part of the game (deck 5 and after) on impossible difficulty, and 2 shoted SHODAN (one shot for shield, one shot for SHODAN).

emp rifle is an heavy investment on impossible as psionic powers level 3 too, but if you take the risk to actually make that investment, you are just invincible to all form of cyntetics (full, and mid) and they represents a large part of the different hostiles you encounter at this point on the game ^^ making only the level of the many offering a descent challenge.

A nerf or gameplay tweaks on the EMP rifle (maybe both !) would feel more balanced

don't take it the wrong way I enjoy the mod a lot, it's just a suggestion

[665b4406066b4ZylonBane]

@ voodoo, ZB: I'm not a fan of shotgun ammo unloaded in shotgun hybrid inventory.

That's insane. You're talking insane things. Looting a broken shotgun off a dead hybrid and making sure you have enough empty space in your inventory to hold it and then unloading it and then tossing the shotgun back onto the floor and doing that a HUNDRED TIMES is the opposite of fun.

[665b440606848Hikari]

Going to agree with Zylon here. That's like... the un-fun.

[665b440606c7eJoin2]

Noobs

Simulation & Strategy, I like it. If it were randomized with a 50% chance to be unloaded or still in the gun per hybrid you kill it'd be even better.
The devs obviously thought it to be the opposite of un-fun and insanity. Of course that is no solid argument otherwise there would be no need for SCP, but I really like it.

A nerf or gameplay tweaks on the EMP rifle (maybe both !) would feel more balanced

I second this. It may be ineffective against organics but it absolutely tears through everything else. Now I hear you say "but that should be it's advantage", but it already has other advantages: Infinite ammo (in theory) and radial damage. You don't need to be in any mechanical enemies line of sight.
It needs at least a 30% damage reduction (preferably 50%) or remove it's radial damage imo.

[665b440606e17Olfred]

What about just stunning the robot for a certain amount of time and maybe do a little bit damage?

So my knowledge about EMP is that you either just stop the electronics from working for a certain amount of time (usally really short, but in a game you could maybe have an EMP sphere which stays for a certain amount of time), or you just completely fry the electronics which would just stop the robot without him exploding :p

[665b440607059Deu sex]

I think EMP rifle needs a little nerf, + more degradation when firering, + more energy consumption.
even without the appropriate maintenance skill and modifications (level 1 or 2) you just have to crank up your energy weapons level to 6, and then carry 2 EMP rifles and a gun or shotgun to finish the game quake style on impossible.
another recommandation could be to have more broken/in bad condition EMP rifles, all EMP rifles you can find are condition 7, 8, or 10 if i remember well, maybe have 2 broken ones, one not broken but in poor condition (3 or 4 max), and one in good condition (7 or but it has to be the last one you can find.

I dont think removing radial damage or mech stunning would be a good idea, the rifle needs to keep his advantages i think but it must feel less "free" to use. a good example of this would be the Gauss Rifle in STALKER SoC, the weapon is completely OP (OS all enemies in the head, no kickback, 100% precision, super effective zoom with ironsight), but the ammo is very limited and the firerate is a pain in the ass.

I would be very curious to test all thoose parameters together, unfortunately I know nothing about tweaking/modding system shock 2 ^^ maybe there is a file with the list of weapons presents in the game and weapon damage and effects ?

[665b44060737dDeu sex]

another recommandation would be to set the minimum required standard weapon skill for the assault rifle to 4 instead of 3, because if you choose +2 standard weapons on navy or marines at the military carrer, you can carry gun, shotgun, and assault rifle already, which makes the assault rifle too "accessible".

by the way, you also need an higher skill in maintenance to maintain the weapon which feels strange. level 4 would be cool because it would feel like "ok i want this cool weapon ? i just have to invest a bit in that area and it's okay " (feels more like you actually invest on the thing, feels more rewarding) instead of "oh, i can already carry that ? well, as you wish ^^" (feels too freegift)

I hope my comments don't feel arrogant to the creators of the mod this is really not my intention
<3

[665b44060759bJoin2]

Two Facts:

-Assault rifle standard requirement is 6.
-Assault rifle maintenance requirement is perfect as it is. 

As for the rest regarding the EMP:

-So you want to make it consume more energy but keep it's radial effect? Reducing radial effect and base damage should be a priority imo, it would make it more skill-based that way rather than just destroying everything without exposing yourself in 1-4 shots. By reducing these two properties you would also increase energy consumption as it would take more shots to kill. It would also make overcharge secondary shot worth a look, as vanilla there is just no need.
-Carrying multiple EMP's...hmm I agree with you here, this does remove any worth to maintenance, repair and modify skill for that particular weapon. At least Laser Pistol is weak and drains faster. Quite a problem considering the only trade-off is 3 inventory slots....
The only half-decent fix I can think of is make EMP's all share 1 battery reserve, as well as laser pistols have their own unique shared reserve.

[665b440607a24ZylonBane]

Simulation & Strategy, I like it.

There is nothing strategic about monotonous busywork that a sufficiently-trained monkey could do just as well.

[665b440607c79Hikari]

Agreed.

As with the EMP rifle. It does absolutely NOTHING against organics. so why end up nerfing something that's next thing to useless against a good chunk of your enemy pool? It tears through robots because that is literally the only thing it's good for. You have to max out Energy to be able to use it, and in the case of SHODAN Fine I can see somehow making her able to need to take a few more hits off of it but really if you've invested that much into the wepon, slogged it through BotM, you should be allowed to rip and tear through the last level.

However what might help is the same thing that the assault rifle has going on only moreso. Give it a requirement of 1. and weaken the gun accordingly so it doesn't get it's full damage til you get energy 6. Til then it's just a sortof handy gun that's specialized. I could sorta see raising the maintinance requirement  little, make it on par with what the assault rifle needs (to those that say you make it useless for a good part of the game. Fie I say. There's enough of 'em laying around that you can discard/move on. Plus by the time you find the first one in Hydro you should already have a decently leveled Maint skill.

This whole 'discussion' to me looks like a bunch of whining and complaining that a specialist weapon is actually good at what it specializes in.

[665b440607e67Deu sex]

"Assault rifle standard requirement is 6"

no, with ADaoB v0.3.0, it is 3.

"It does absolutely NOTHING against organics"

true, but it does heavy damage to :

-all turrets
-cameras
-cyborg midwifes
-cyborg assassins
-all types of mech and heavy mechs

and they represent a huge part of ennemy encounters since deck 5
and the shodan 2 shot is just, waw.

i'm not whining don't worry this is supposed to be a balance mod/project, I'm just giving personnal feedback that's all <3

[665b440607ffaHikari]

Reduce the amount of damage it does to cyborg enemies? I agree with the idea that assault (and EMP) rifle needs to go up to 4 to use to sidestep people who go in having already memorized the armory code to get that one early (can we remove the unbreakable status on it if it isn't already?)

I know discussion was had earlier on whether or not the laser rapier needs some sort of rebalance.

Any chance it could actually be made stronger, but use energy as ammo then when it's brought down to no power it does a lot less damage? Y'know like the SS1 Rapier.

[665b44060843cJoin2]

This whole 'discussion' to me looks like a bunch of whining and complaining that a specialist weapon is actually good at what it specializes in.

Indeed it is. And rightly so.

Wasn't the fusion cannon an issue at first? Some of the annelid weapons? Repair is next to worthless. Some things need rebalancing, one of the targets of this mod. At the very least something needs to be done for EMP vs Shodan. No boss should die in two shots, especially not Shodan.

[665b4406087d5Tricky]

No boss should die in two shots, especially not Shodan.

Will Smith did it in one. Kind of.

[665b4406088ffHikari]

But he had a specialist tool and access to the weak spot.

Personally I say add a few turrets in with the holo-shodans and buff the shields.

[665b4406089f8Olfred]

What about making the shields to also block the EMP, or at least weaken them (if that is even possible to implement)