Outline for a new mod manager

[66674b547c86eKolya]

That's a whole different can of worms for several reasons. I'd be superhappy if we just had a good modmanager.

[66674b547cbe7Marvin]

Why? If you built in a functionality that can edit a file, read predefined strings and change them, expanding it to another file with other strings should be relatively easy.

[66674b547cf0fZylonBane]

Why? If you built in a functionality that can edit a file, read predefined strings and change them, expanding it to another file with other strings should be relatively easy.

You haven't done much actual programming, have you.

[66674b547d00eMarvin]

I have, thank you for your consideration.

[66674b547d250ZylonBane]

I have, thank you for your consideration.

Then that makes your statement even more inexplicable. The most difficult part of both a mod manager and a configurator is constructing a user-friendly GUI, and these two GUIs would have practically nothing in common.

[66674b547d366Marvin]

Based on Olfred's design, yes, you are correct, but you could do without fancy sliders and layered checkbox lists. Besides, that depends on the programmer and on the framework, doesn't it? I once worked with someone on a physics related project who coded a GUI like that in a few hours in Java and he's not even some sort of super genius.

[66674b547d469Kolya]

My experience tells me that it's better not to jump at someone who has volunteered to do one thing with the next big idea before he has even finished the first. It also tells me that you want to keep such projects separate, because that allows for splitting work and makes later maintenance easier.

[66674b547d560Marvin]

You make it look like I was forcing Zeebok at gunpoint to abandon the current MM development and focus on another project instead. I think he'll be more than fine with or without people speculating about future work. ;-)

[66674b547d672Kolya]

Nah, I didn't mean that. Maybe it's just a personal itch, something I learned at work.

Features for the modmanager that would be nice to have:
- ability to save/load mod scenarios
- possibly for the next version: conflict checking with list of conflicting files (While no files will get overwritten anymore, there will still be files that get disabled.)

[66674b547d7aeSimplex]

Yeah, a GUI/Frontend for the config variables would be cool - as a separate project, as it has nothing to do with mods.

[66674b547db1fOlfred]

Ah, I didn't wanted to jump anyone with my idea. This idea just popped up in my head and I thought it would be nice to have everything in one tool instead of having several tools.
I agree that having a working mod manager is much more important than having a tool for setting which can be done rather easily yourself. But having a GUI would be alot more friendly for inexperienced people.

I just putted it here so in case Zeebok likes this idea and maybe he wants to go on after he finished the modmanager, he can already take it into consideration when creating the GUI.
Sometimes it can be a pain in the ass to modify a GUI afterwards so I didn't wanted to wait for it.

[66674b547dc6dSimplex]

This can also be a separate tool made by a separate person. While I know next to nothing about programming,  I think that such program should not be difficult to create - the biggest problem would by with getting together all the variables and all correct parameters for these variables (and ideally a description of what they do) - luckily most of the parameters are described in file new_config_vars.txt included in The New Dark archive.

[66674b547ddc2Zeebok]

That would certainly be a nifty feature set. Like that gnome window theme btw (Fedora?) ;D

[66674b547df0bOlfred]

Actually I use Pencil Project to "sketch up" GUIs.
From the free tools available this is the one I liked the best.
Even though you can load new "stencils" in there I just took the ones which came with it, and for desktop applications there is only this design and the windows xp one, and that one is ugly as hell :D

btw, I'm on Windows ;)

[66674b547e0f5Simplex]

There are dozens of similar programs that could serve as inspiration - perhaps one of them is open source and could be utilized?
The programs i know about:

Crysis 2 Config Generator - I think it has a realy nice and clean GUI:
Image: http://i5.minus.com/ik1xHa.jpg

Crysis 2 Advanced Graphics Options:
Image: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gAxUJWOgdEo/UHs9MUomVAI/AAAAAAAAAJ4/Aivz4V2_X04/s1600/Crysis2AdvancedGraphicsOptionsVerison2_0_1_Screenshot.png

Borderlands Configuration Editor:
Image: http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3949/borderlandsadvancedsett.jpg

And probably dozens more.

And perhaps the discussion about the GUI/Frontend could be split from this topic into a separate one.

[66674b547e21bZeebok]

Ahhh nifty looking program. I certainly don't mind looking into making a configuration manager after I get the mod managing dealt with. I love having little programming projects to distract me from work or my larger personal projects.

[66674b547e350Simplex]

I was so bold as to create a separate topic for the configurator, so that this topic is focused solely on ModManager:
https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=4604

[66674b547e45dVF2013]

Good to see things kicking off.  My own development (.NET based) has been interrupted by real life and a complete re-install of my machine after a bunch of upgrades.  I'll possibly plug away at it regardless.

[66674b547e57aZeebok]

Still working on it, now that I have a little more free time. Got to point with Wx that made me check out Qt; have to say I am liking Qt a little more. Good chance I am going to switch over fully to it based on how tonight goes with my tests with it. Github repo with reflect what ever happens. Figured I'd let people know that I am haven't forgotten about it.

[66674b547e680Kolya]

Thanks, I was asking myself if this was still going on. Good to hear it is.
Since SS2Tool 5.1 mod loading from the Data*Mods folders is done via the "mod_path" variable in cam_mod.ini.

[66674b547e778Zeebok]

Do we know yet if there is a hard limit on the length that mod_path can be?

[66674b547eac2voodoo47]

; the max path count is 63 for "uber_mod_path" and "mod_path" combined
; (avoid an excessive amount of paths, it can make file handling slower)

[66674b547ebe6ZylonBane]

This is why I'm not personally a fan of the multiple mod path approach. It trades off speed of mod configuration for consistently slower load times, since every resource request has to trawl through every. single. directory. that's. listed.

[66674b547ece9Kolya]

You may want to upgrade to 2.42, voodoo. Because that is not what I read in cam_mod.ini (max path count is 63).
The number of mods will usually be much lower and modern systems will hardly have a problem with load times. In fact SS2 levels loads way faster today than they did back in the day.