New Fan Mission

[6666a8706461fAurora]

Greetings, fellow shockers. I am Aurora, and although I have played the games for a few years, I am a complete newcomer to the System Shock community.

Throughout my gaming years I have created original content for various games, most notably Half-Life and its mods, including maps, models, animations, textures, and really everything under the sun that goes into modding. Some of that you can see here: http://imgur.com/a/CCubR

As of recently I have taken a great interest in System Shock I and II, and have decided to create my own FM / TC mod for it. Having had extensive experience stretching back to the early noughties in modding, I believe myself capable of tackling such an undertaking - for the most part. The part which I struggle with the most is the plot, which in a game like System Shock takes much greater precedence than in Half-Life, especially in establishing the atmosphere.

I am wondering if anyone would be interested in discussing ideas with me. I should say I prefer to do so in private, ideally via instant messaging over Skype, Steam, or IRC. I get that the community is quite small, and since I would ultimately create the mod for the community, it would be a bit pointless to spoil it all on here.

My Skype and Steam are both aurorafinn.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/AuroraFinn/

Anyone interested?

[6666a870648c6voodoo47]

doubt anyone will be interested in a skype session, so feel free to discuss everything here. I have been fixing up a couple of (abandoned) FMs in the last few years, so I can provide some technical assistance (things you should and shouldn't do with the editor, maps and resources), and maybe some hints on the gameplay stuff as well (check the summary on Minstrel fixup, for example).

first thing to do would be patching up with SS2tool and letting it install the editor, and learning how to build basic levels. once you are familiar enough with all that, you can start thinking about other things.

[6666a87064a71ZylonBane]

Look forward to budgeting at least a year of your life to becoming proficient in DromEd.

[6666a87064c06voodoo47]

depends on how much free time one has (NOT having a fulltime job would cut the timeframe down significantly, I imagine), and also how fast one learns and how much experience in the field one has (for example, despite the games being completely different, I found it very easy to mod Open General, after figuring out it also has a gamesys of sorts and that the maps have concrete objects/tripwires/quests and other things that have Shocked equivalents, it took me just a few hours to create a simple mod/campaign extension).

so it's hard to tell whether this will take a significant amount of time - but one thing is sure, it certainly will take a significant amount of effort.

[6666a87064db2Aurora]

Thank you for the tips. I've spent a few hours with ShockEd, and while I can say that it's a bit more convoluted and restrictive than Hammer, so far I am having a field day with it!

https://i.gyazo.com/aa041a9155d004bfa4a0783b2b7e92b9.jpg

The problem I am having now is preserving the hierarchy of the air/solid brushes when working with multibrushes.

Is it more sensible to use objects for detailed architecture rather than brushes?

[6666a87064f0avoodoo47]

I'd say no, Dark is not too good with big objects (anything beyond a large door). I also assume you did go through the tutorials, right?

no idea about that hierarchy part, if you can't find an answer in the tutorials, you'll need someone who has experience with building the levels to step in.

[6666a8706530cZylonBane]

Is it more sensible to use objects for detailed architecture rather than brushes?

The collision model for objects is limited to a box or a sphere, so you can't, say, create a tunnel network as an object.

Now, if you meant "architectural detail" rather than "detailed architecture", then yes, objects are good for that.

[6666a870658a2Aurora]

I'd say no, Dark is not too good with big objects (anything beyond a large door). I also assume you did go through the tutorials, right?

no idea about that hierarchy part, if you can't find an answer in the tutorials, you'll need someone who has experience with building the levels to step in.

I am going through the tutorials presently - thanks to everyone who went through the trouble of writing them and included images. What I also find helps a lot is watching somebody build a complex level from the ground up, like here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbsWK9rgrmw

The collision model for objects is limited to a box or a sphere, so you can't, say, create a tunnel network as an object.

Now, if you meant "architectural detail" rather than "detailed architecture", then yes, objects are good for that.

Yes - architectural detail is what I meant. Essentially, details small or flat enough to not really necessitate collision.

[6666a870659a3ZylonBane]

You will, BTW, find the greatest concentration of DromEd knowledge over at TTLG.com, in the Editor's Guild forum.

[6666a87065b3cicemann]

Definitely. Though they do lean more in the Thief direction nowadays.

[6666a87065c2fZylonBane]

I'm pretty sure it always did.

[6666a87065d58Aurora]

I have been learning non-stop for the past week and have come to master building the geometry, customising DromEd, creating custom resources, and using the object hierarchy to create everything functional.  Where is the hard part that will take me a year to tackle?

[6666a870660a5Olfred]

It comes when you actually start the project and everything SHOULD work but nothing does.

[6666a870661c7chickenhead]

Didn't DromEd used to kill your family after it crashed or something?  Now it just tortures your soul.

[6666a870664e2voodoo47]

It comes when you actually start the project and everything SHOULD work but nothing does.

that. anyway, as already mentioned, someone with experience/talent and a lot of free time (and energy) would most likely be able to chug down the basics much faster.

[6666a870667ddZylonBane]

Where is the hard part that will take me a year to tackle?

When you venture beyond the trivial. Roombrushing. Patrol pathing. Flow brushes. Stims & receptrons. Signals & responses. AI behavior.  AI behavior. AI behavior. Particles. Conversations. Dynamic lighting. Animated lighting. Materials. Objectives. Quest bits. Scripts. Tweqs. Links. Doors. Elevators. Weapons. Explosions. Motions. Damage. Emitters. Flinders. Triggers. Relays. Delays. Automaps. Physics. Loot lists. 0, 0, 0. Audio propagation. Schemas. Weather. Fog. Aaaaaaand coplanars.

[6666a87066d6eAurora]

It comes when you actually start the project and everything SHOULD work but nothing does.

I have found this to be the case with my HL projects as well. If the amount of time I spend building the level geometry and setting up the objects (called entities in GoldSrc) is X, then the amount of time troubleshooting, fixing, and making the level actually work is anywhere between 5 to 10 X. Then there is balancing the gameplay once it works well enough to be playtested, which also takes somewhere between 5 to 10 X. The first time I get a large level to actually run in-game, I write down all bugs and end up with a three-digit list.

When you venture beyond the trivial. Roombrushing. Patrol pathing. Flow brushes. Stims & receptrons. Signals & responses. AI behavior.  AI behavior. AI behavior. Particles. Conversations. Dynamic lighting. Animated lighting. Materials. Objectives. Quest bits. Scripts. Tweqs. Links. Doors. Elevators. Weapons. Explosions. Motions. Damage. Emitters. Flinders. Triggers. Relays. Delays. Automaps. Physics. Loot lists. 0, 0, 0. Audio propagation. Schemas. Weather. Fog. Aaaaaaand coplanars.

This list will be useful to me then - I will make a test project which broaches all of these.

Now a few questions;

Is there a way for me to tamper with the AI and code new enemies?

I used SS2Tool to update SS2 but this has led to countless bugs which weren't present before, such as Christine's FMs crashing when I exit the intro levels, objects being invisible or not there at all in various FMs, for example tables and railings in Minstrel only appearing once I touch them, etc.

Am I doing something wrong? As a temporary solution I have separated the SS2Tool SS2 and the GOG release SS2 into separate folders now, where I use the first one for editing and the latter for playing.

[6666a87066ed2voodoo47]

yes, you need to run Shocked with the -fm parameter and load FMs via FMsel just like when you want to play them. if you won't do that, resources will not load properly, as you have found out.

definitely possible to tweak AI behavior (Secmod), but creating new ones would require additional resources (voice sets etc), not a simple thing.

[6666a870673d1ZylonBane]

This list will be useful to me then - I will make a test project which broaches all of these.

Ha. List hardly needed, just go to the object editor and scroll through all the hundreds of available properties (and metaproperties).

Is there a way for me to tamper with the AI and code new enemies?

Yes. Take a look at the existing AIs in the hierarchy and note the various properties used to implement them. You can tweak their senses, speed, strength, attack styles, evasion, etc. You are, however, limited to what the built-in AI scripts can do—no completely new behaviors. To create a new AI from scratch, you'll need a properly rigged model, a motion set, and a voice set.

BTW, a familiarity with NVScript can make many tasks much easier/possible than the original scripts.

[6666a87067ae6Aurora]

yes, you need to run Shocked with the -fm parameter and load FMs via FMsel just like when you want to play them. if you won't do that, resources will not load properly, as you have found out.

I always start it with FMsel, so I guess that's not the issue. Also I am talking about problems in-game when playing normally. In any case that's good to know (that I have to load FMs with FMsel in the editor too), so thank you for that tidbit of information.

definitely possible to tweak AI behavior (Secmod), but creating new ones would require additional resources (voice sets etc), not a simple thing.

I have experience creating all new NPCs for HL, featuring new models, sprites, animations, sounds, functions, etc. so the effort isn't a problem to me. I am only wondering to what extent such is possible with Shock.

Ha. List hardly needed, just go to the object editor and scroll through all the hundreds of available properties (and metaproperties).
Yes. Take a look at the existing AIs in the hierarchy and note the various properties used to implement them. You can tweak their senses, speed, strength, attack styles, evasion, etc. You are, however, limited to what the built-in AI scripts can do—no completely new behaviors. To create a new AI from scratch, you'll need a properly rigged model, a motion set, and a voice set.

BTW, a familiarity with NVScript can make many tasks much easier/possible than the original scripts.

Thank you, I will look into this. I am essentially hoping to create NPCs with a combination of attacks, eg. something that can shoot both laser and grenades.

[6666a87067c1cvoodoo47]

definitely possible (endgame Constantine in T1/TG). also if you have issues running something, create a topic at the Helpdesk (include logs, and full descriptions).

[6666a87067f4bunn_atropos]

@Aurora:
For the work on your test FM, did you think about making some kind of "making of diary"?
It could be interesting to get some insights into problems and their solutions, flow of inspiration and everything that comes up during developement.

[6666a8706803aAurora]

At your suggestion I have began writing a developer diary.

[6666a8706830aZylonBane]

For the work on your test FM, did you think about making some kind of "making of diary"?

"Dear Diary, today I began making a diary."