Night Dive Twitch Streams

[665b20ce8517aRocketMan]

C'mon.  You know that's not what I was talking about.  That's how the likes of Half-Life or Quake 2 do grenades.  SS1 involved mouse dragging.  And as long as we're splitting hairs, most grenade throwing does not require you simply click the mouse button but also to hold it down for a period of time, unless you want the thing to land 2 feet in front of you.

Let's see how different grenades really are by comparing 2 other weapons first:

Pistol vs Shotgun:

Pistol - Looks like a small hand weapon.  Press left mouse button and a hitscan bullet impacts target at the reticle.
Shotgun - Looks like a long hand weapon.  Press left mouse button and several hitscan bullets impact target around the reticle.

Now let's do SS1 throwing grenade vs grenade launcher

SS1 Throwing Grenade: Looks like a small object in your hand.  Press left mouse button and drag in the intended throwing vector with drag speed proportional to intended throw velocity.  Grenade arcs in that direction and explodes either on impact or after a certain duration.  Must be activated first and then thrown, leaving player a time limit to dispose of the grenade.

Granade Launcher:  Looks like a long hand weapon.  Press left mouse button and a small object will arc towards the reticle and explode on impact or after a fixed duration.

So does the second match-up differ more or less than the first match-up?

[665b20ce85699icemann]

It's hardly a secret that SS2 is much more of a full-on FPS than SS1. SS2 is full of enemies that will chase you down and murder you, unlike SS1's enemies, most of whom barely move at all. So yeah, SS2 is more Doom-like than the often ploddingly strategic SS1. That being said, I feel SS2 made up for the shotgun with the oddball guns like the stasis cannon and exotic weapons. SS1 has nothing like that.

I have little doubt that the modernization of SS1 will include making the enemies less sluggish, so I consider hanging onto the few unique aspects of SS1's combat system to be disproportionately important.

See when you say it like that, then I partially agree. I don't agree that adding a shotgun makes the game more Doom-like, but if your saying that removing a weapon without adding something else new to compensate for it then sure (I'm pretty sure I said just that months ago, when the topic of gun removals first came up).

If you take my FM Ancient for example, I went for Doom-like gameplay in that. But it wasn't because of the shotgun. More in style overall, of fast paced action. To me "Doom-like" is more an overall gameplay feel, than just something from an individual weapon.

I guess, the challenges ND has is time and resources. Coming up with completely new weapons would be a big resource and time sink + you run the risk of pissing people off.

[665b20ce85b4csgupta]

05/20/19 Dev Stream w/ Daniel

* This is probably the last stream of Daniel's in his old home. 

* He's working on Reactor level today getting it ready for BSP implementation.

* He's got a color coding system for level sections broken into quadrants.

* He won't reveal what the NDS Mystery Game is yet.

* Jonathan (art) joins around 15 minutes in.  No Karlee today as her streaming PC is currently down.

* Some people in chat are concerned about the weapon reduction.

* Earth shakers are gone because they didn't make a lot of sense on the station.

* Daniel argues a lot of that is consolidation.  For example, stun gun has been eliminated but is being rolled into secondary fire for the Sparq Beam.  It's a process.  They were actually going to cut more initially, but decided to keep many of them.

* It's a bit too early to worry about this stuff until there's more of a focus on gameplay.  Gameplay will constantly be iterated once the core gameplay is in. 

* It is true time and budget are not unlimited, but they're trying to make the game as good as possible within those constraints.  That does mean some careful consideration of what to keep vs. cut when it comes to things like weapons, but they've also added things like the grenade launcher as their focus is always on a good experience. 

* Grenades will still be available to thrown manually.  This also adds some strategy.  The grenade launcher will have advantages, but take up a lot of space, so some players may choose to go without to just hand-throw.

* Grenades will also likely have timed or percussion (on impact) modes.

* Jonathan argues GMDX is greater than the original Deus Ex (seems controversial - I've never played GMDX so I can't give an opinion, though I love the original Deus Ex...need to replay that).  He's not a fan of the original Deus Ex level design.  I have to say, while it hasn't aged well (most games from that time period haven't IMO), I remember being blown away at the time as it stands out as one of the bigger game worlds I played when it was released.  I really do need to replay it at some point as it's been a looong time.  I'm sure the level design really shows its age nowadays.

* If people aren't aware, Stephen and his wife just had a baby!

* Research tile set is getting close to completion (still a lot of work, but getting there) and looking great.  Daniel can't wait to play with it.

* Daniel shows off the finished Respawn Chamber, which Justin worked on.

* Q: Will Respawn Chambers have limited uses?  A: There's talk about it on harder difficulties.  Or having a cooldown timer.

* Daniel would like an "Iron Man" mode where it's extra hard and the Respawn Chambers don't work at all.

* Q: Are graphics still subject to change?  A: Yes, but style is going to stay the same.  There may be some minor changes here and there.

* Jonathan really, really doesn't like the BioShock games. =oP

* They would love to be able to provide mod tools, but they can't promise that right now.  It's a may happen if they have enough time type of thing.

* System Shock dev team is 10-12 people, with a couple of those people like Daniel working on multiple projects (but the majority all exclusively on Shock). 

* Nightdive itself is about 20 people (which includes lawyers, etc.).

* He managed to finish the BSP work on Reactor level during the stream.

* No stream next week since Daniel is moving, but the next stream in ~2 weeks should be in his new home.

[665b20ce85cc0voodoo47]

strangely enough, I'm ok with the weapon consolidation. even the grenade stuff looks ok.

GMDX is the real deal, and that's not a title I award lightly.

[665b20ce85e38icemann]

The key I think is for there to be enough for people to develop their own style and weapons of choice. If your only given a very small selection of weapons, then that's not really possible. That's not the case here with the remake yet, but just noting.

So the earth shakers been removed. Need to start keeping a list somewhere of all the stuff removed. Seems to be growing over time incrementally. Can't say I ever used that one honestly.

I remember being really crazy about Deus Ex when I first played it. Played all the FMs for it. Then I dunno, moved on and I've never played it again. Where as System Shock 1 and 2 I go back to every few years (especially 2). Dunno, System Shock just clicks with me far more.

[665b20ce85fc0JDoran]

I can imagine a purist preferring vanilla Deus Ex, but to me GMDX is definitely the best way to play Deus Ex. I think the original has aged fine, though. Yes, it's ugly and the locations don't feel too alive or real-worldish, but the gameplay and atmosphere make up for that, and even vanilla it's still by far the best Deus Ex game (sadly it does look like Deus Ex: Mankind Divided will be the last DX game for a good while).

[665b20ce86163icemann]

My notes for the stream for bits sgupta did not mention:

* Daniel notes that the original incarnation of the remake was going to have DLC for a "what if" scenario, where SHODAN did make it to Earth, with you playing as one of her Cyborgs.
* Jonathan goes on for a bit about how he hates in the original SS1 how so much random detail without purpose is in the game. For example a room with nothing but 3 monitors.        - In defense of the original game, that room they were looking at in particular I'd say was a security room, where staff would have been watching the camera feeds.
* Jonathan says that he'd like to add crew quarters to each of the levels, and to expand on them to make them look more life-like.    - Makes sense.
* He'd also like for the Reactor level to be reduced to a smaller size as it's too big for the space that it should be fitting within, on the station. Daniel disagrees.
* Level 6 in particular they want to greatly expand on.
* In Jonathan's opinion the shape of the station was an afterthought. Daniel again disagrees there and says that it was very well thought out.

[665b20ce86289RocketMan]

GMDX looks like the best mod to please the most people but it seems they didn't bother upgrading the character models.  Considering you spend so much time around NPCs, it looks a bit weird when they still have box hands and triangle noses.  HDTP redid the models but only some of them and you still have to add a bunch of other stuff to bring the rest of the game into focus.  I've been looking for a good blend of everything for a while now.

[665b20ce86387voodoo47]

if you mean those character models I think you mean, then yeah, those are better left not included. like, ANYWHERE.

[665b20ce86564Synaesthesia]

If you missed out on the stream, you can check out the initial Research tileset that I've been working on here.

[665b20ce86693ZylonBane]

Those Research guys must set things on fire a lot.

[665b20ce867e4RocketMan]

As an engineer I can't help but notice how ineffective that sprinkler arrangement is, given the surrounding architecture.

[665b20ce86ae6icemann]

Those Research guys must set things on fire a lot.

Someones in a negative mood. Research and fire go together though, so that'd be pretty logical I'd have thought.

Textures look good to me. Note - I still have an hour left to watch on the latest stream so will edit my post above if anything else of note comes up.

[665b20ce86d5fZylonBane]

Someone's in a negative mood.

Cute. But seriously, all the overhead pipes and bare bulbs would look far more at home in the maintenance or reactor sections. The research level should have that glossy "high tech corporate research lab" look to it. At least, the main corridors should. Some structural mess in the experimental labs would make sense though.

[665b20ce86fb7Twist]

That doesn't look anything like Research to me, but maybe my own imagination and perception of the place was way off.

I pictured red commercial carpeting along the hall floors. Most of that level, or at leasts its halls, didn't look or feel all that industrial to me.

[665b20ce87181icemann]

Well your all welcome to come in to the streams (as in to chat with the devs in the chat) when their going. But it's only been me, sgupta and 3rdplayer bothering to show up so far.

So if you want your voice heard, that's the best way. I went in quite negative to the streams initially, but over time that all went away as I've watched them and heard in extensive detail why things are as they are. And you have discord as well that you can go on and talk to the devs directly. Now could things be better, hell yeah, but your never going to get your "ideal" / "dream" version of the game that you want most.

It's a bit like the fan experience going from Fallout 2 and Tactics to Fallout 3. Prior to it coming out the fans were going MENTAL. And I mean mental. I can remember how crazy they all went, and then it eventually came out and it was awesome. Hell even I went into that game sceptical as hell, and now it's one of my favourite games of all time (more so New Vegas) and I play it every few years, compared to 1 & 2 where I've only played them a few times ever.

[665b20ce87395sgupta]

While I dig the overall look, I will agree I'd like to see the red colored floors make a comeback.  They're just so distinctive in the original levels and really add to the ambience of it for me (it helps that along with Medical, Research is probably one of my more vivid memories of the original game, largely because of all that red, floors included, which you just didn't see in most games).  The gray floors are fine but just make the level a bit less interesting looking IMO (just personal aesthetics, mind you - I completely understand if some disagree with that). 

Keep in mind Research is still WIP so I don't know (either way) whether or not these early shots are representative of the near-final look.  (For example, maybe they intend to go with red floors but just haven't done them yet - I honestly don't have knowledge of these things). 

Re the extinguishers, TriOp was never the most efficient corporation, though it looks like the extinguishers are on both sides; I'd imagine that'd have pretty good water coverage of the walls and center of the room.  (That said, I'm not an engineer, so you likely know better than me.)   

Overall, I really like this early peek, even if I wouldn't personally mind a few changes in the original level's direction.  But, I really like things overall even so.  I can't wait to see more!

And yes, feedback is more than welcome in the Discord or during the livestreams.  Nightdive really does listen and consider it all; that doesn't mean they do every suggestion/criticism, but they really do care about what people think IMO and want to make this the best it can be.

[665b20ce8761eicemann]

But seriously, all the overhead pipes and bare bulbs would look far more at home in the maintenance or reactor sections. The research level should have that glossy "high tech corporate research lab" look to it. At least, the main corridors should. Some structural mess in the experimental labs would make sense though.

True. Looking at the screenshot, then thinking of it's SS1 incarnation, I'll admit that it doesn't really look research-y. More like a train or factory.

[665b20ce879e0ZylonBane]

And yes, feedback is more than welcome in the Discord or during the livestreams.

If I were a dev, I would much rather take feedback from forum posts than by scouring through chat logs. Forum posts have greater permanency, are usually grouped by topic, and tend to have more thought put into them. Live stream logs are usually just a chaotic soup of off-the-cuff immediate reactions.

[665b20ce87af3sgupta]

I'm just saying Discord and livestreams are the official channels for realtime communication.  That doesn't mean, though, that they don't read forums such as this one, the KickStarter comments, etc. 

[665b20ce87bfaicemann]

The forums here are definitely checked and have been made mention of a few times recently in the streams by Jonathan, as you'd know from the replies. I'm not sure if any of the others read the posts. I'd assume that Stephen Kick does, as he's posted here a couple of times.

[665b20ce87ebesgupta]

06/03/19 Dev Stream with Daniel & Jonathan (Jonathan heads out a bit before the end.)

* We're working on Research today, so new stuff to see!

* Some technical problems at first with textures not showing; looks like the build didn't update properly; they updated and now it's loaded properly.

* Robb had input in the redesign of Research, and they're keeping accents like the in-wall lights, etc.  It's not a 1:1 of the original set, so there are reimaged parts of it - they feel it only makes sense to reimagine it with the new engine capabilities in mind.

* They added some blue vertical lights to complement the blue horizontal ones.

* Floors are now large gray tiles with a bump texture broken up by red partitions every so often.  [I actually really like this.  I was worried in the first early screen shots about the solid grey vented floors looking bland; this fixes this for me and adds red accents and an interesting texture on the gray.] 

* He wants to add more floor vent variety.  Some additional tile work and such will be needed, but what's there all fits together pretty well overall.

* A lot of this stream is getting used to the new tile set and how to place things, what new pieces might need built, etc.  It goes quicker the more they learn the set.

* Q: Will there be falling damage?  A: It makes sense for this version as they want enemies to have it too.  This System Shock will have a bit more verticality to it than the original.

* Q: Is the whole station wheelchair accessible?  A: As it is now, yes actually, though he still wants to add more stairs than the original had.

* Q: Will their be support for color blind players?  A: Daniel thinks in this day and age it's highly likley it'll be available as an accessibility option.  [I was a bit surprised by this; I'm not color blind, so I haven't paid extra attention, but I don't think I've ever seen that as an option in a game - very cool if it is becoming common now.]

* Daniel mentions there have been some changes to UI coloring, but it's not in this build to show off.

* There will be some Nightdive people at E3, but more in attendance than any panels, etc.

[665b20ce88044icemann]

FINALLY someone asked the wheel chair question. That's been really bugging me with the remake.

My notes for the stream:

* The first 5 minutes of the stream is completely silent (prior to Daniel appearing). Copyright striked?
* Jonathan has his mike volume down a bit low. I had to pump up the volume to hear him.
* Overall I like the look of the new textures, seen in actual use. It's different sure, but I like it. I think with props added in, it will all gell together.
* 1:16:00 - Jonathan says that there are no respawning enemies on the research level. Wasn't there respawning Hoppers until you switched robot production off?
* Fun original SS1 bit of info mentioned - The original game had a 63 enemy limit per level. Go 1 over and the game crashes.    - I did not know that.
* Can lights be destroyed - No
* When will new weapons be in the game - Very soon. Mini pistol is nearly ready.

[665b20ce88365ZylonBane]

FINALLY someone asked the wheel chair question. That's been really bugging me with the remake.

SS1's future has instant healing beds, resurrection stations, and ready availability of cyborg augmentations. You seriously think anyone on Citadel would be lacking the ability to walk? And even if they were, you think they'd get around in something as primitive as a wheel chair?

Think things through, man.