Game Dev Unchained 0090: Rebooting System Shock With Jason Fader

[665b2df1a2a68unn_atropos]

°podcast°Game Dev Unchained°Jason Fader
Game Dev Unchained 0090: Rebooting System Shock With Jason Fader
https://soundcloud.com/gamedevunchained/0090-rebooting-system-shock-with-jason-fader

[665b2df1a2ceeZylonBane]

Whatever happened to that SSR not-manifesto? I pretty much ignored it when that was all going on.

[665b2df1a2eedvoodoo47]

this one?

[665b2df1a30a9unn_atropos]

I think in the podcast they were refering to this one. (Can't find the finalized form).
That's one thing in this podcast I was a bit puzzled by. He talks about a fan community that made this long letter with feedbacks. systemshock.org wasn't named, but I think he means us!?
Then he talks about how this community was like "we know the game already. Make the game for new players, not for us", and I was like "Okay, is that the consensus on our site? Did he get it wrong? Or is that just some marketing blurb?"

I, for example, would not say that. I want a faithfull adaptation that we "hardcore fans" would enjoy. New players should like it as well of course, but it should not be catered to them.

[665b2df1a31aeZylonBane]

That's the one. I didn't get involved in that thread because it seemed to mostly be just Aurora amusing herself.

[665b2df1a35d6Myagi]

That's one thing in this podcast I was a bit puzzled by. He talks about a fan community that made this long letter with feedbacks. systemshock.org wasn't named, but I think he means us!?
Then he talks about how this community was like "we know the game already. Make the game for new players, not for us", and I was like "Okay, is that the consensus on our site? Did he get it wrong? Or is that just some marketing blurb?"

Maybe I didn't pay full attention the entire time, but throught the entire interview the impression I got that the "community" referred to was for all intents and purposes the pay-for-entry discord thingy. Which IMHO might give a bit of a skewed view. Someone that is wary of what direction the game will end up going might be less inclined to pay up front  before they know what they're getting. Just a theory.

[665b2df1a372dunn_atropos]

So they made a wishlist on discord too?
I didn't back then (because I  was lucky to get my rent together^^), now there's the paypal. Question is: Is the discord/communication any good? Anyone here a backer? Am I missing out?

---
Just putting that here
Short Jason Fader interview by NVIDIA GeForce.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj52BqZVG-c

[665b2df1a3837Myagi]

I missed the list thing. Well I have no idea about that, I don't have any access to discord. Correct or not, it just was my impression that he spends most of his community time on discord, or at least that's his biggest community input stream, which would probably color his view of what most want.

[665b2df1a3d97Learonys]

So they made a wishlist on discord too?
I didn't back then (because I  was lucky to get my rent together^^), now there's the paypal. Question is: Is the discord/communication any good? Anyone here a backer? Am I missing out?

I can provide some input here. Yes, discussions are held in the Discord channel, and feedback is given from time to time. Per example, shortly after the release of Prey 2017, a channel on the server has opened, which is solely focussed on the discussion of this game and its mechanics. (Very) in depth discussions have been held there, but this has been more amongst the members themselves than the developers. What they do in this case is let the members talk freely, they read everything, and then ask several questions regarding the members' statements and opinions. I feel like they like to see what their community thinks makes for a good or bad immersive sim, and in which situations. They like to see the brainstorming, and try not to interfere with this process.

This does off course raise (and they are understandable) concerns that Night Dive mainly listens to one type of person, the person that has backed the game in (cautious) positivity and relative trust. And that this more isolated discussion will lead to skewed opinions. After all, they won't gather as much info from people who are more cautious, or negative(?), and that their opinions won't be heard as much.
To this I can say that a good point is made here, and I do agree that this is potentially harmful to the game. But this isn't nearly as prevalent as you may think. First of all, I *have* already very explicitly stated these concerns to their team, and they fully understand this, and have said that they do take into account that skewed viewpoints may arise, and that they are careful with this. I think this shows because they have never asked for feedback yet regarding to gameplay aspects they want to add, remove or change that they haven't showcased yet. So no, they don't tell us more about the game than they tell any outsider. Only feedback regarding to the originals, or other games have been mentioned.
Having said this, the userbase in their discord is a lot more varied that one may think. Yes, there also is a fair share of more cynical and cautious users that also do actually actively participate in discussions, and current and past discussions being held have lead to a varied amount of arguments regarding aspects of the game. I feel like they are all heard.

TL;DR: Discussion and feedback in the closed discord is not as skewed as one may think, but I have raised my concerns about the possible effects, and they are aware of it. Discussion and feedback is mainly related to the original, and other games. Feedback regarding aspects of the reboot they want to add, remove or change has never been asked for, as they don't tell us more than they tell anyone else.

[665b2df1a3f56Kolya]

Thanks for the insight, Learonys. It's interesting. I don't see how one could hold it against the devs if they listen more to the people who are willing to pay for their game up front. But I guess in the interest of meeting as a big a market as they can, those shouldn't be the only ones they hear and they are aware of that. Good for them.

[665b2df1a4328Hikari]

That's the one. I didn't get involved in that thread because it seemed to mostly be just Aurora amusing herself.

More than a touch condescending Zylon, which is normal from you I suppose, but not entirely wrong. The document was mostly a case of (if Aurora is still around please correct me) how TL;DR the discussion threads had gotten with initial feedback, so even if they didn't read the thing we could at least say we put everything on the table where they could see it in a (hopefully) easy to read form.

Personally I think you're an antagonistic weasel that's condescending to everything and everyone around you, but you are bloody brilliant when it comes to the ins and outs of the franchise, so you putting in a doc of your own doing a breakdown of the next public facing demo (assuming we get one before it reaches a final build status) would be fairly enlightening. After all by this point you may as well be a game developer given your experience in modeling, texturing, working on the fan-patch, and just raw experience with every facet of how the two shock games work. So in something that would serve as a breakdown of where a thing feels right, what feels off, and feedback on how to improve someone that is as abrasive and to the point as you can be would be really useful.

After all I don't see you kow towing, saying what they want to hear even if you don't believe it, and kissing feet if you were handed an early beta. If another preliminary gets released they'd desperately need someone like you telling them what is wrong  and how they might can fix it.

Edit: The google doc of the 'compiled community feedback' for the unity demo is here.