SCP Beta 4 Issue Reporting

[665ad86a03206voodoo47]

obviously. my point was that there is no meaning in trying to make the perk viable on that difficulty, as it's just not going to happen.

so lets accept this is a hard/impossible difficulty deal and make sure it's one the player would have a reason to take.

[665ad86a033eaZylonBane]

Apparently I need to explain more.

When a player "SUCKS AT THE GAME" that means, among other things, that they get DAMAGED A LOT. Players who get damaged a lot really like having MORE HIT POINTS. The more the better. There is no such thing as too many hit points. There are people who suck at this game so much that they seek out the undead cheat code, giving themselves essentially INFINITE hit points.

"No more hit points please, I have enough" is incomprehensible Moon language to people who play on Easy.

[665ad86a03554voodoo47]

hmm, hard to argue if you put it that way. not sure whether we care about people who are beyond any help though. probably not?

either way, if the change results in a nerf on the hard and impossible difficulty, then I would view it as not desirable. you want to give more than 10 bonus hp to the hopeless people playing on easy? sure, as long as it doesn't mean those playing on impossible will suddenly get only 2.

[665ad86a03671ZylonBane]

Where are you getting 2 from? The maximum HP on Impossible without Tank is 25. 25 * 20% is 5.

Well, players do like their instant gratification, so as suggested upthread, something like granting an immediate +5 to HP, then a +20% permanent modifier could work. That would end up giving Impossible players about the same HP boost as they're getting currently.

[665ad86a037a8voodoo47]

then sure, why not.

//2hp was calculated from the starting hp pool on impossible (not taking extra endurance as a career choice), which is 10, so 10*0.2=2. calculating it from the maxed out pool would indeed make it 5, which isn't nothing, but would still be a 50% nerf compared to b4. I don't think I would like that.

[665ad86a039f0ZylonBane]

Alternatively, Tank could give a % HP bonus based purely on the starting HP, before the Endurance bonus is applied. That way players would get the full effect of the upgrade immediately. I'm not saying I'd be a fan of this, I'm just listing it as a possibility.

Let's see... the base HP values, from Easy to Impossible, are 45, 30, 24, 7. The HP gain per END values are 10, 5, 3, 3. Since you always start with one point in END, that makes the lowest starting values actually 55, 35, 27, 10, and the highest values with max END 105, 60, 42, 25. Okay, this is getting to be a lot of numbers, so I'll just consider Easy and Impossible from this point.

Adding +20% to the current computed value would get you to 66 ... 12 before any upgrades, and 126 ... 30 with max END. For going all-in on maxing HP, this seems fair.

Tacking a base +5 to that would make the max 132 ... 36. Hmm, that ends up almost quadrupling the starting Impossible HP.

Another possibility would be to just give a flat bonus equivalent to 2 points of END. So base +20 on Easy, +6 on Impossible. This would yield max values of 125 ... 31, which is surprisingly close to the +20% values.

[665ad86a03bf2Nameless Voice]

Isn't a percentage bonus very much falling into the "but it's more effective the later you take it" issue, which we had with the +1 PSI stat buff for Power Psi.

I think it's better if the trait is already effective when you only have 1-2 END.  You're so tight on modules on Impossible that you might not be able to afford more points in END until later in the game.

[665ad86a040f5ZylonBane]

Isn't a percentage bonus very much falling into the "but it's more effective the later you take it" issue

No, because all these proposed formulas would be added every time stats are recalced, based on the current stats. This is possible because HP is a derived stat. Psionics is a "core" stat, so the only robust way to bump it (without rewriting every psi script) is to straight up give the player a Psionics point.

[665ad86a04731ThiefsieFool]

Psionics is a "core" stat, so the only robust way to bump it (without rewriting every psi script) is to straight up give the player a Psionics point.

That is not the only way. I just showed you a robust way to buff Psi with a trait, by raising the strength of psionic projectiles (their damage, stun, etc) proportionally and based on the player's current Psi stat.

In fact this was already implemented in NVScript so no extra scripting needs to be done. I forgot that the script can already handle traits, and since you didn't look you didn't notice it either.

Code: [Select]

int iTraitNum = ParamGetInt(m_iObjId, "NVStatBasedProjectileTrait", -1);

if (iTraitNum != -1) {
if (pShockGame->HasTrait(oFirer, iTraitNum)) {
float fTraitScale = ParamGetFloat(m_iObjId, "NVStatBasedProjectileTraitScale", 0.10f);
fValue *= (1.0f + fTraitScale);
}
}

pPropSrv->Set(m_iObjId, "arSrcScale", NULL,  fValue);

[665ad86a04866ZylonBane]

In this case by "robust" I mean, "boosts the psi stat for ALL systems that use it". Projectiles are only a tiny subset of the available psi powers. If the OS upgrade were called "Psishooter" that would be fine, but "Power Psi" implies a more general-purpose boost.

[665ad86a04bc9sarge945]

@RoSoDude how were you able to increase the PSI stat by 1 for all powers (including duration based ones) in RSD when overloading?

Might make sense for SCP to also scale duration based powers, since currently overloading does absolutely nothing for the vast majority of psi powers, which seems extremely strange.

[665ad86a04cd2ZylonBane]

RSD did like what I've been saying-- he reimplemented all the psi scripts in Squirrel. Around 800 lines of code.

[665ad86a04de6sarge945]

If you're not willing to reimplement the scripts (which is fair enough), it seems mostly pointless to try and do anything with psi overloading at all since the majority of disciplines won't be affected.

[665ad86a04f5cBaal]

While playing the game yesterday, I had a brawn boost implant deactivate (as if its power was depleted) before it was down to zero percent.
This happened shortly after I upraded the maintenance skill (with the implant active while doing that).

[665ad86a05084voodoo47]

so you got the "power drained" bark, and dropped items because the inventory shrunk by 3 tiles, despite the implant still having a bit of charge or something?

either way, if you cannot replicate and/or share the saves, then there isn't much we can do.

[665ad86a05178Baal]

Yes, that's what happened.
I do have a save file and I'm trying to reproduce the issue. I'll get back to you.

[665ad86a055fcZylonBane]

it seems mostly pointless to try and do anything with psi overloading at all since the majority of disciplines won't be affected.

Yes, which is why we've mostly been discussing Power Psi, not psi overloading.

[665ad86a0582fBaal]

I do have a save file and I'm trying to reproduce the issue. I'll get back to you.

Well, I can't reproduce it now.
What I did at the time was upgrade the maintenance skill two levels (from 4 to 6) with the brawnboost implant active. The power ran out at ~45%. Not really a problem, just odd.

[665ad86a0599cZylonBane]

Aha!

Wait... no... cannot reproduce.

[665ad86a05afaZylonBane]

I noticed that the Thief games label quicksaves as:

(Quick Save)

Whereas in SS2 it's just:

Quick Save

I kind of like the parens around it, helps visually set them off from the manual saves. Any objections to adding them to SS2's quicksave and autosave names?

Digging into this, I'd completely forgotten that in vanilla SS2 both quicksaves and autosaves are labeled "Auto-save".

[665ad86a05bdavoodoo47]

can't say I care much for this.

[665ad86a05cdbZylonBane]

Which sounds better?

A) "Increases maximum hit points by amount equivalent to 2 points of endurance."
B) "Increases maximum hit points by equivalent of two points of endurance."

[665ad86a05dcasarge945]

A, hands down.

B isn't even a grammatically correct sentence (it should be "the equivalent of").

[665ad86a05e9fBaal]

A)