SSR: System Shock Kickstarter

[663d627765aa4lgs]

It's a SS2 look if it was released today and i'm perfectly fine with it, but i can understand SS1 purist frustration, i would also miss the unity tech demo look, it was very charming.
Dismemberment in it's current iteration looks exactly like Fallout 3s, it's good to have it (also mutants look a lot like F3 ghouls)
Stealth - great.
All hud is obviously a placeholder.
Rivet gun - great, especially if they implement nailing stuff to walls with it.
Shattering mutants - amazing, looks like the shatter tech is procedural.

[663d627765c34la0s]

I have yet to see or hear anything from Jason Fader, that makes me confident he can lead this. Somehow I don’t Spector or Church would ever try to show off how you can dismember enemies.

[663d627765d30lgs]

May be because he doesn't have status of an industry icon and is a way more grounded guy? I don't see any red flags in lead showcasing a feature that the dev team have implemented.

[663d627765efficemann]

I thought the video was great, though it gives off the impression that there is a bit of scope creep going on.

I'd be nailing hacking and cyberspace as this is System Shock 1 not System Shock 2. Concerning themselves with freezing enemies and dismemberment is more something that should be focused on later if time permits.

The look of the areas appears nice. Has a Prey-ish look. The only problem there being that Prey was heavily inspired by SS2 and not SS1. If you read the text based bits of the update (which were quite interesting) they added in new enemies like cyborg commanders and turrets. To me it still looks like their trying to turn the first game more into how SS2 was.

[663d62776604bvoodoo47]

which again, may, or may not turn out to be a good thing in the end.

[663d6277665efOlfred]

First impression: Black Mesa: Shock.

Not even that. What I liked about Black Mesa was that they kept the basic layout of the maps and updated it visually to a modern style. When you walked around in Black Mesa you feel like you've already been there. It just looked different, but still close enough to the original to recognise it.
Now I don't know SS1 as good as I know HL1, but I couldn't really recognise any of the shown areas because they look so extremely different. Both in visual style and geometry.
Now I wouldn't want them to keep the exact same geometry, actually I disliked this about the demo. They just kept the blocky design and added new visuals to it. Which wasn't enough in my opinion, they should have changed the geometry a bit to look more modern and "realistically build". Now they did it, but went too far in changing the visuals and the whole layout.
It was mentioned that they went the same route as DOOM or Wolfenstein. But that were reboots, not remakes (as far as I know). For a reboot it's okay to get inspired by the old look and build something similiar in tone to it, so you recognise where it belongs to. But for a remake you should recognise the old game in the new one, which they failed.

About the freezing stuff and dismemberment. Meh, I don't care that much about it. It might bring something fresh into it gameplay wise that you can freeze some enemies as long as it isn't overused and mysteriously every second enemy does have a freeze tank standing right next to him. And as long as they don't make the dismemberment a crucial part to beating some enemies (like in dead space) it just adds to the cruel world that System Shock really is.

[663d62776672evoodoo47]

pretty sure the project is now a reboot, no matter what the (sub)title says. but yeah, I fully agree with that "levels should be instantly recognizable" part one way or another (was mentioned in the recommendation topic as well).

[663d6277668c0JosiahJack]

Ya, I don't recognize any of the fully detailed areas shown in the video.  What Olfred said.  From that perspective it can be dissappointing.  Also none of the original style is preserved.  But it does look like it might be fun for it's own sake.

[663d627766c23ZylonBane]

Dismemberment in it's current iteration looks exactly like Fallout 3s

... which looked exactly like Alien vs Predator's dismemberment. A game that came out the same year as SS2.

[663d627766e42fox]

Ok, before reading more of other peoples' opinions about the backer update-video:

- the dismemberment-demo left me feeling uncomfortable and wasn't a good way to end the demo, imo. It's not that I'm squeamish or against using such a system (in fact I want it, if it has an impact on gameplay and believability) but I'm also not getting any joy out of watching it displayed in this way.

- The graphic style looks quite uneven at the moment, undecided between a more stylized look and a more realisitic look. I take it that some of that will be improved in the future but hearing that they have so many textures and assets finished already, doesn't make me hopeful. I certainly prefered the way the unity-demo looked! The animations also still don't look impressive.

- Overall, it seems to me like they are still trying to put more distance between SSR and the original but without a very clear vision or the necessary budget. Never say never but I'm not feeling this at the moment.

[663d6277671eeCarrot]

It was mentioned that they went the same route as DOOM or Wolfenstein. But that were reboots, not remakes (as far as I know).

Which Wolfenstein are you talking about?  TNO didn't seem like a reboot to me, referenced too much of the 2009 game.

[663d627767566ZylonBane]

- Overall, it seems to me like they are still trying to put more distance between SSR and the original but without a very clear vision or the necessary budget.

I was thinking it looks like they have too much budget, since they're burning dev time on silly pointless things like a dismemberment system.

[663d627767807fox]

I was thinking it looks like they have too much budget, since they're burning dev time on silly pointless things like a dismemberment system.

I guess they are trying to squeeze in some "Dead Space". I agree that bigger budgets would be wasted without a clear direction.

The freezing/shattering seems a bit Bioshock-inspired. If they must take inspiration from any existinig "spiritual sequel", it better be Prey, as far as I am concerned.

[663d627767a95Olfred]

Which Wolfenstein are you talking about?  TNO didn't seem like a reboot to me, referenced too much of the 2009 game.

That should make it clear that I am talking about the 2009 one, you know, the reboot, not the sequel to the reboot.

[663d627767cdbCarrot]

That should make it clear that I am talking about the 2009 one, you know, the reboot, not the sequel to the reboot.

Again, 2009 referenced a bunch of stuff from RtCW.  Where BJ and Deathshead both knew each other from their previous encounters.  It didn't seem like a reboot to me.

[663d627767e98JosiahJack]

NDS: Hey we are remaking System Shock!
Fans: Awesome!  That sounds fantastic!
NDS: Look we made a demo!
Fans: Cool!  Maybe a little close to the original, but hits nostalgic sweet spots!
NDS: Nah, we don't like Unity.  We're changing engines.
Fans: Oh, that's fine...we're sure it will still be awesome.
NDS: Look we have some pics of our work.  Listen to our orchestral soundtrack bits!
Fans: Um, that looks very different.  It's more SS2-esque, doesn't preserve the style (from what we see), and looks very modern (which may not be bad).  Music seems a little out of place.  It will be cool probably.
NDS: Look we have a teaser video!  We added dismemberment and shattering.  Look at how shiny everything looks in Unreal engine, see how realistic we made it look!  There's even a children's waiting room on a space station full of weapons and mining equipment.
Fans: Uh...what?  Well...maybe it will still be alright.  Wait what is this??  This doesn't even look like SS1.  Where's the nostalgia? Um...it...well, it will maybe be ok still.  No really, it's fine.  Um keep it up.

[663d627767f7ffox]

As long as the door code is still 0451.

[663d62776807cJosiahJack]

451

[663d627768497Kolya]

the dismemberment-demo left me feeling uncomfortable

Yeah, that was like watching sausages being made.

[663d627768765Olfred]

Again, 2009 referenced a bunch of stuff from RtCW.  Where BJ and Deathshead both knew each other from their previous encounters.  It didn't seem like a reboot to me.

It rebooted the franchise. My point was that both mentioned games weren't remakes, thus they aren't a good reference when you actually do a remake.
If you want to nitpick about it not actually being a reboot, fine. Let's say it's not a reboot. That doesn't change the actual statement I said.

[663d6277688b0JosiahJack]

Is anyone else bothered by the mutants being naked?  It's kinda disturbing. Seems like they are taking it from what would be rated T by todays standards up to an M rating.  I mean they are going for disturbing, but I think it's unnecessary.

[663d6277689edlgs]

All System Shock games are M rated.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles don't wear pants either, why did no one brought this disturbing fact up yet.

[663d627768bbdicemann]

I just wish that Night Dive would comment on the cyberpunk style/look/aesthetic/plot.

All I hear from them currently is "We love System Shock 2. We think the original should have been more like it, and wasn't that great of a game compared to the sequel." Obviously that's not direct quoting, but I do recall someone from them saying something to that effect during the KS campaign.

Beyond that, if we start getting updates more often, and not just every 2-3 months and they actually friggin talk about what's actually going on with development, rather than just giving us concept art then I'm happy (for now). For me, I think they should have stuck with the Unity engine. It cost them a fair chunk of time switching over which may bite them in the ass later on. After which you'll be reading "In hindsight we really should have stuck with the Unity engine and listened to the fans more, rather than stubbornly going with our view on what the original should have been vs what the public wanted".

If you look at other failed sequels (eg Duke Nukem Forever, the FPS incarnation of XCOM from take 2 etc) and reboots. What killed them? Game engine changes. How many engine changes did DnF go through before we eventually got it? How many times was Starcraft - Ghost redone before it was cancelled?

[663d627769043ThiefsieFool]

I was thinking it looks like they have too much budget, since they're burning dev time on silly pointless things like a dismemberment system.

It's actually just a quick filler for the video, Unreal Engine 3 and 4 both have native support for breaking apart a skeletal mesh with the Bone Break and Break Constraint functions, you don't need to do anything amazing beyond that to have dismembering https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/BlueprintAPI/Components/SkeletalMesh/BreakConstraint/index.html