SS2 list of broken and lowpoly objects that need fixing

[6649e056cd09aOlfred]

Same thing as last time, clean new model.

I made the grate a little bit off center so there will be no z-fighting.

[6649e056cd49fJoin2]

bathrooms have already received a lot of love;

-all now have proper doors
-all now have proper sinks
-all faucets are interactive
-all showers are interactive
-all toilets are interactive
-all showers have proper drains

so yeah, I think we can say with certainty that there is a bit of bathroom obsession. or maybe just obsession with details in general. we might never know. or care.

Ah so SCP does extend gameplay (interactivity, useless or not). My next shock 2 playthrough I feel is due soon and I'll probably put aside Secmod for SCP this time, and fall in love with the game all over again as is the norm.

And I don't know whether to be impressed by yours and ZB's dedication to bathroom/toilet plumbing renovations, or scared. Either way I'd appreciate it in-game. Good job, Mario Bros.   

[6649e056cd91bZylonBane]

Same thing as last time, clean new model.

Works great, thanks!

Ah so SCP does extend gameplay (interactivity, useless or not).

Interactivity isn't gameplay. You can't defeat a hybrid by turning a faucet on.

[6649e056cda62Join2]

Technically the term is not well defined, but the general consensus is, simply put, the way in which the player can interact with the game and their influence on it; the play experience and everything that entails (rules, interaction, goals etc). To flush or not to flush, it's a gameplay choice. 

[6649e056cdc7bZylonBane]

Okay, I've been slapping object duct connectors all over MedSci, and they're looking pretty good, like they always should have been there.

Regarding the toilets, Olfred, if you're game, I'd like to try the just-bowl-smash approach to hide the lack of actual floor drains under any of the toilets. This will require at least three "new" objects. The most important one will be a version of the regular toilet model with the handle intact but the bowl itself smashed, down to about... 1/3 the total height of the bowl? The idea is to remove as much of the toilet as possible but still keep the floor covered. The object would be swapped with the base toilet model when it's destroyed, so it would have to be aligned identically with it.

The other two or three models would be the debris. One could be a chunk of the seat lid (it hopefully wouldn't remain stuck to the bowl!), and the rest pieces of the bowl. It's fine if all the pieces together don't make a complete bowl-- players are used to some matter vanishing when things break in video games.

If this approach proves satisfactory with the vanilla model, then I can beg for a version for the HD model. I don't want to waste your time on something that might not work out.

[6649e056cdda2Olfred]

uhm.... wouldn't be the debris toi01.bin be enough for a (fixed) toilet remains and the toi02.bin popping of from the side?
At least I think that's what it's supposed to be. And I've already made the same debris for the HD model, where the "no drain" thing is even better covered.
Arranging the pieces is no big problem.

[6649e056cdf0cZylonBane]

There have been a lot of toilet parts flying around recently, so hopefully I'm not getting confused.

The vanilla toi01 debris is the wrong shape. It's just the right half of the bowl, so it doesn't completely cover the floor under the toilet, and looks like it would fall over. Also it's missing the wall handle.

The smashed HD bowl doesn't remove enough of the toilet. It just smashes one side out, which would look in-game like players should be able to smash it even more after that.

Actually... maybe this is a bad idea. If you as a player smashed a toilet and it left a shattered base, would you find it strange that the base was then invulnerable?

[6649e056ce04dOlfred]

I would say the debris we have now should be enough. There's hardly anything which falls into more than three pieces. There is a toilet, you can break it, people are happy with that.
The game is old, no one expects super realistic destruction models.

And I'm no expert about the american toilets, but german ones only have one big hole where the poop goes and another smaller one for the water. And it's bolted to the floor or wall, so no topeling over.

[6649e056ce16eOlfred]

I've arranged the debris to match the position of the toilet model (the fixed one, I additionally included it here again).
Additionally I added the hole you are missing (texture used bullhit).

Try it out and let me know what's your impression.
[toilet debris arranged.zip expired]

[6649e056ce45bJoin2]

Actually... maybe this is a bad idea. If you as a player smashed a toilet and it left a shattered base, would you find it strange that the base was then invulnerable?

I'd say that'd be fine, as like you say players are used to inconsistencies when breaking shit, but are more appreciative of the fact they can break shit in the first place. The fragments that are spawned when the object is broken will not be breakable into smaller fragments themselves either, so it's fine to have an unbreakable base segment too.

[6649e056ce5e0ZylonBane]

Yeah, but now that I think about it, (almost) nothing breakable in SS2 leaves a persistent corpse. Barrels, wall computers, windows, ducts, pipes, toilets, eggs -- all disappear into debris when destroyed. I can only think of two exceptions-- turrets, which pop their top but do leave a permanent corpse, and the terminal boxes that crunch in when hit (but don't even spawn debris).

Olfred, I did test having toilets turn into the vanilla toilet debris base part when destroyed, but it looked really odd. As mentioned, it only covers about half the floor where the drain should be, and since there are only two debris pieces, it just looks like the side of the toilet pops off when you hit it.

I could go with a hybrid approach (no pun intended)... have the toilet bowl smash into nothing (with drain modeled into the terrain), but leave behind the wall handle. This shouldn't seem odd to players, since the toilet bowl and toilet handle are not obviously the same object.

[6649e056ce8e7Olfred]

where the drain should be

Didn't you see the hole I put on there? A drain doesn't necessarily go directly down from the bowl. There are toilets where the drain goes into the wall and then down somewhere.

[6649e056ce9fcZylonBane]

If that's something you added to the most recent posting, I haven't had a chance to check it yet. At work right now.

[6649e056cedc4RocketMan]

Toilets probably vary to some extent around the world.  The ones I'm familiar with have a trap cast into the porcelain and it exits through a wax flange in the ground with a diameter of perhaps 6-8".  The water, depending on whether the toilet is household or commercial, comes in horizontally from the wall through a small pipe to the tank area or it goes into a nickel plated valve assembly that protrudes from the rear of the bowl.

Except for top execs, I assume most toilets are of the commercial type, which means there wouldn't be much more than a bowl and piping behind it.  Smashing the toilet would leave behind pieces of the bowl and bent water lines.  The floor may or may not be exposed.  I see no reason why it must be exposed... depends how you hit it and how it cracks.

[6649e056cef59voodoo47]

the VB toilet actually may collect air humidity for flush water and then disintegrate the waste into rose aroma, avoiding the need for plumbing altogether.

you know, nanites and stuff.

[6649e056cf041RocketMan]

More than likely they use the effluent to patch the leaky coolant tubes.

[6649e056cf307Olfred]

Maybe the real designers intent was for the toilet to be the successor to the T-1000, simply called the T-00 as it was more of a branched off model.
So whenever the toilet get's damaged or destroyed it simply reassembles itself. But due to the engine limitations it wasn't possible and now we are stuck with this.

If that's something you added to the most recent posting, I haven't had a chance to check it yet. At work right now.

Yeah, it's the most recent (with files).

[6649e056cf48cZylonBane]

Okay, took a look at the most recent pack. I can see what you were going for with the wall hole, but I'm sorry, it doesn't work for me. Not sure why exactly, it just doesn't read as realistic to my eyes.

Currently leaning toward something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9MeH05tybE

BTW, about aligned debris pieces, that doesn't work for pieces that get flung away from the parent model, because they end up spinning around the object center point, which looks really weird.

[6649e056cf579Olfred]

Now this looks totally wrong to me. With a faucet installation like that I'm certain the hole needs to be on the wall.

[6649e056cf680voodoo47]

it's a wireless faucet.

jokes aside, yeah, a plumber would probably disagree, but we are not really trying to make it realistic, we are trying to make it interact/look nicely. the setup from the video does that.

realistically, a toilet on a spaceship would be made of material that would not be smashable.

[6649e056cf762Olfred]

But that way it doesn't make any sense.

And why would it be unsmashable?

[6649e056cf8c3nemyax]

It would probably be a stainless steel crapper. You can't smash it, but you can deform and dent it.

[6649e056cfa66ZylonBane]

I can guarantee most players won't try to logic out that the drain should go into the wall. They'll just see a western-style toilet and intuitively expect it to be plumbed like one. Besides, there's also the expectation that something should be underneath a toilet installation, and a drain hole satisfies that.

Err, and I should have mentioned this earlier, but I kind of forgot about it. Toilet drains on the floor are actually already canonical in the game, via the broken toilet in medsci2:

[6649e056cfbb4Join2]

I appreciate this ridiculous attention to detail in toilet plumbing. I may skip over giving this much care to toilets in Deus Ex, but that's only because my mod has broader goals and the game isn't as tightly designed an experience as Shock 2 is either way.

To add to the process: what will the damage system be like, if you haven't already got that covered? I'm expecting it to take a little more of a beating than breaking in one shot or whack with the wrench like vents do, but won't object to it following that rule of fragility.