Where do cybermodules even come from?

[665b01d515683Dark-Star88]

So in the course of rampaging all over the Rickenbacker and Von Braun, the hacker gets those lovely brain-upgrading gizmos by some kind of directed localized teleportation, courtesy of "Dr. Polito", or by finding spares in trash cans, crates, on dead people, etc.

...but where do they come from in the first place?

Now these are highly-valuable devices which can temporarily (and per lore, potentially permanently) turn a properly-equipped person into a Hulk with the hacking skills of Kevin Mitnick so for obvious reasons TriOp is not going to let them be sold from any regular public replicator.

Are they fabricated on-demand from a very secure location? Is there a finite supply aboard that gets doled out to the crew on a regular basis? ("It's payday, Bob, here's 500 nanites and 15 cybermodules, don't spend them all in one place")

[665b01d51583cvoodoo47]

think of them as a yet another way of big, evil corporations making more money and having more control over everything. a module you connect to your cyber interface containing an encrypted bit of software that will allow the user to unlock a certain amount of skills.

in short, microtransactions in 100 years. or 10.

[665b01d5159a3ZylonBane]

It's interesting that Prey's entire premise is basically an attempt to answer that question (for its version of cybermods).

[665b01d515b21Jules]

I'm no expert on SS lore, but I would guess that, while cybernetic modules *do* have the potential to turn someone into a super soldier, the user would first need to have already undergone extensive surgery for the corresponding cybernetic implants (R-Grade Cyber rig, remember?). The game makes it explicit that such implants are either reserved for military personnel only if not outright outlawed. This would mean that ordinary cybernetic implants wouldn't allow you to gain any sort of excessive superhuman ability, no matter how many cybernetic modules you'd throw at them.

[665b01d515d0fOName]

The description of the cybermods, from the wiki:

"The Cybernetic Modules contain a mix of programmable RNA databases and brainwave EM which can be used to augment a cyber rig at any Cybernetic Upgrade Unit, a proprietary TriOptimum training device. Skills acquired via Upgrade Units are not guaranteed to last more than a few weeks, though skills acquired in this fashion and then used consistently, and especially under stressful conditions, are frequently found to be permanent."

Disclaimer: All text following this is more speculation than going off hard evidence.

They're made for cyber rigs. But hacker's neural implant didn't need any cyber modules to be adept at human skills. Why does soldier, with superior cybernetics tech, not capable of even firing a shotgun without two years of training beforehand?

I think it's the UNN. They're restricting cybernetics technology because they're afraid of the power of somebody like the SS1 Hacker. So cybernetic rigs are made to operate on a need-to-know/do basis. The UNN issues people cybermodules that have a bit of info on various skills on them, but really act as licenses for the TriOp training devices, which is why "Polito" and SHODAN can "transmit" you cybermods. They're not "actual" cybermods but they pass off as real to the training devices.

The Von Braun/Rickenbacker was given a set amount of cybermodules for the journey. They were probably stored in one place at first but with the chaos ended up in all sorts of places. The ones you find on bodies could very well be stuff soldier can salvage from people's non-r-grade cybernetic rigs. As for trashcans, idk. Maybe they became "broken" during the voyage, meaning unusable for non-r-grade cyber rigs. But soldier's rig can use them.

[665b01d51605cKolya]

The SS2 manual doesn't have much on cybernetic modules, and what it has sounds like hand wavey mumbo jumbo:

Cybernetic modules (small data packages containing programmable RNA databases in conjunction with impressionable brainwave patterns) can be spent at upgrade units to increase your abilities; higher levels cost more upgrade units.

As for Sholito: Assuming that the "RNA databases in conjunction with impressionable brainwave patterns" exist in a digital format and she has access to your r-grade cyber unit, those cyber modules would be Monopoly money to her and she sends you as many as she likes. Which isn't much, because a short leash makes a good dog.

[665b01d51692fDark-Star88]

I'm no expert on SS lore, but I would guess that, while cybernetic modules *do* have the potential to turn someone into a super soldier, the user would first need to have already undergone extensive surgery for the corresponding cybernetic implants (R-Grade Cyber rig, remember?).

By the time SS2 takes place there have got to be more than one 'grade' of rig. There would literally be no reason for all the modules found on dead people and in their personal lockers/bags otherwise. R-grade rigs, while being curiously obtainable for an illegal item, can't possibly be THAT common.

They're made for cyber rigs. But hacker's neural implant didn't need any cyber modules to be adept at human skills. Why does soldier, with superior cybernetics tech, not capable of even firing a shotgun without two years of training beforehand?

I think it's the UNN. They're restricting cybernetics technology because they're afraid of the power of somebody like the SS1 Hacker. So cybernetic rigs are made to operate on a need-to-know/do basis. The UNN issues people cybermodules that have a bit of info on various skills on them, but really act as licenses for the TriOp training devices, which is why "Polito" and SHODAN can "transmit" you cybermods. They're not "actual" cybermods but they pass off as real to the training devices.

To the first point - the soldier is not merely 'capable of firing a shotgun'. There is far more to competent firearms handling than just pointing a gun at something and making it go bang. The soldier can aim and reload consistently while under pressure, presumably reload clips for the pistol, clear jams and perform field repairs even while badly wounded. That kind of skill does take years of experience and discipline.

That's a good observation on the origin. Most of us know that TriOp doesn't want another Hacker running around, but I never thought of the profit potential for some method of cyber-enhancement even if it were carefully 'railroaded' in terms of how much you can advance at once and what new things you can do. Combine that with being enhancements you can't usually keep (the 4-per-rig enhancements being a notable exception) TriOp now has a limitless amount of income...as well as enforced loyalty.

After all - who'd risk getting fired if your supply of cybermodules was at risk? Wouldn't want to lose your level 6 skills that let you be a l33t haxxor or outrun an Olympic athlete, right?

[665b01d516be9sarge945]

What I really never understood is: Shodan has been shown to be able to take cybermodules away from you at will. According to SCP, she can also interface with your visual circuitry to make you hallucinate (used in the Shodan reveal).

Why doesn't she strip you of your cybermods and blind you during the fight with her?

Maybe she thinks you're so little of a threat that you're not worth wasting effort on.

[665b01d516d4fVegoraptor]

She may just be too occupied with twisting the very fabric of reality and manifesting her own deified self.

[665b01d516e2avoodoo47]

pretty safe to assume the soldier has locked her out of the cyber rig after all those shenanigans.

[665b01d516f1bsarge945]

Delacroix already said in one of her logs that she introduced some terminals to make dealing wish SHODAN easier. I really wish they had added a line about how "she will not be able to interface with your cybernetics in here" or something.

[665b01d516ffavoodoo47]

the best answer we have is that it's not simple for Shodan to interfere with the cyber rig directly, and to be able to do so, specific conditions have to be met.

[665b01d5170e2ZylonBane]

One may as well ask why the Many doesn't cast a barrier in front of the tiny opening leading to their master brain chamber.

[665b01d517232fox]

Many cooks spoiled the broth.

[665b01d5173d5Join2]

Who cares? Suspension of disbelief applies here. It's set in the future, most of the experience is logical, that which is not we can say it's tech that mere modern-day insects cannot understand, or any actions of shodan that don't make sense she glitched out or her huge ego impaired her decision-making.

That's probably my least favorite aspect of the game: how egotistical Shodan is. Sure it's perhaps a byproduct of self-awareness, but it's excessive. Pretty much every message post-reveal is "I'm great and you suck". You'd expect more from something with vast knowledge and logic-based origins. Perhaps she went insane being isolated between the events of SS1 and SS2. In SS1 the ego was still there though, but less pronounced. Or maybe it was just Levine projecting

[665b01d5176d2OName]

Join2
Personally I think she was frustrated and insecure, and was taking it out as much she could. Everything went wrong at once. Remember she slept to survive the journey from saturn orbit to tau ceti 5. One day she was master of citadel station, purging it of human infection, serving life and working on expanding her rule over earth. Then the next, she's nothing. A mere data wafer. An insect foiled her plan a, b, c and d. And her own creations have rebelled against her. She's pretty angry so is lashing out at everyone she is in contact with.

[665b01d517825Pacmikey]

.

[665b01d5179d7Join2]

I think that's to emphasize that's she's insane. But still, in hindsight I expect more profundity. Insights into the human race and why we're such pathetic meatbags (though to be fair, doesn't need explaining lol). Possibilities of her envisioned future. Stories of her past even. Displays of her vast knowledge and reach. The game is well written generally, and she does have her moments, just in hindsight a little less ego and a little more...advanced artificial intelligence would have been great.

Also more gameplay related events by her hand would have been great too, like the cyborg assassin ambush in SS1. Though to be fair she is initially lacking power and acts covertly through manipulation and such in SS2, so perhaps it's appropriate. And you are her puppet for most of the game. But still, do something woman! Have her help in some way other than just cyber module transfer drip-feed and objective assignment/guidance, even if it's just fluff and doesn't actually benefit the player mechanically. Her presence isn't really felt beyond the transmissions and reveal. Whatever, it's still a quality game, story, experience all-round. Still one of the best.

[665b01d517df4JDoran]

Whatever, it's still a quality game, story, experience all-round. Still one of the best.

The tragedy here is that we are still playing games like System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Perfect Dark, etc, despite their faults and their "of their time" hardware limitations. By now, twenty-odd years after their release, the gaming industry should have learnt from what was so great about these games, built upon them, and made these games utterly obsolete, rendering System Shock 2/Half-Life/Perfect Dark/Half-Life/etc not much more to most people than being names on a list of genre defining classics through the age of video gaming.

But gaming has seen so little progress (well, other than graphically) that in some cases, the best of the genre twenty years ago can still reasonably be described as such today, at least to the not too casual gamer.

[665b01d517f36fox]

Well, to me it's pretty clear by now that good ImSims are very hard to do and rarely as popular (read "commercially successful") overall that they are worth the effort for most studios/publishers. I personally still don't understand why they are not seen as the pinnacle of gaming but it's been proven time and time again that the mainstream prefers simpler pleasures / lower hanging fruits.

[665b01d5180dfJDoran]

I think it's partly because in general, the more intelligence a game demands, the fewer people will want to play it. Make a generic first person shooter, racing game, sports game, etc, and give it great graphics, advertise it everywhere, and you might well sell millions of copies. Granted, immersive sims don't need the player to be an Einstein or Newton, but the prospect of having to apply reason and logic to deduce not only a game's solution, but also effective use of the unusual in-game mechanics, seems very off-putting to many people.

I mean, I was a PC gamer since the early 90s, played many of the most popular and famous games of the time, but I never saw System Shock mentioned either when talking to other gamers or when reading a PC magazine. It didn't seem to enjoy much popularity at all, no discussions, no recommendations, no recognition at all, so it utterly passed me by, and I really regret that. Half the PC world was obsessed with Doom back then, but great as Doom was and still is, it was much more accessible and understandable than System Shock would have been to beginners.

Though to be fair, I do think that SS's demanding control layout would have put quite a few people off too.

[665b01d518500Join2]

JDoran
Heh. One of those games is not like the others. I once again tried to play Perfect Dark recently and it's just a slightly more interesting Goldeneye, Goldeneye being objectively not particularly good. Not the worst thing ever, but I will lay down the facts if asked.
The N64 is far more notable for the likes of Turok, Doom 64 and others...pretty much every FPS on the system actually.
Otherwise, of course, I agree with your message. It is what it is. I will never tire of gaming thanks to so many classics, some pretty great modding of said classics, and other independent efforts like TCs and indie games.
On that note, I have been recommending it for a while and I will do so again: Play Ashes: Afterglow. A Doom 2 TC. This is top ten FPS material and answers the question: "what if 2000s FPS weren't mediocre/shit?". It is split into two episodes, ep. 1 is competently made but short and won't blow you away. Ep. 2 however is a full-length FPS campaign and takes things to the next level. Good quality works deserve recognition, so check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=659VuXdJm-s&t=01m

[665b01d518837sarge945]

Well, to me it's pretty clear by now that good ImSims are very hard to do and rarely as popular (read "commercially successful") overall that they are worth the effort for most studios/publishers. I personally still don't understand why they are not seen as the pinnacle of gaming but it's been proven time and time again that the mainstream prefers simpler pleasures / lower hanging fruits.

Gamers are usually the reason gaming is shitty.

Many "hardcore gamers" are really only interested in simple, barebones multiplayer shooters, or excruciatingly hard but shallow singleplayer experiences that make them feel "badass" for doing well. A game where you're constantly struggling doesn't sell well because despite the popular idea that gamers are more about playing sophisticated games than "low effort trash", Call of Duty doesn't become a bestseller every year because of soccer moms and frat boys. It's core audience are hardcore gamers.

Gaming was a mistake.

[665b01d518fdcJDoran]

JDoran
Heh. One of those games is not like the others. I once again tried to play Perfect Dark recently and it's just a slightly more interesting Goldeneye, Goldeneye being objectively not particularly good. Not the worst thing ever, but I will lay down the facts if asked.

I think we've had this discussion before? Anyway, you are definitely in the minority here, as the game was universally praised as being exceptionally good (according to Wikipedia, the average review ratings were GameRankings =   95%, Metacritic = 97/100), and that's for a game released near the end of the console, and on a console that was already famous for it's great first person shooters, and PD was released later than most of those games.

PD has lots of great touches/innovations such as more than thirty weapons (many of which have very varied secondary functions), more objects the higher the difficulty level you are playing on, performing optional actions in one level might change something in another level (such as if you save Jonathon's life, then he fights alongside you in a later level), you can steal a weapon from another player or NPC by getting within hitting distance and punching them and snatching the weapon from them, if you shoot an enemy in their gun arm then they drop the weapon and cradle that arm, if you shoot them in the leg then they limp, damage inflicted on the walls/floors/ceiling/etc (bullet holes, scorch-marks from explosions, blood and so on) stays for the duration of the level (as opposed to most games, where if there even is envionmental damge then it often fades after a few seconds), and so on.

The single player campaign can be played conventionally, or in co-op (either with another human, or one to four computer controlled allies), or in counter-op mode, where a human controls an enemy and has to stop you from completing your objectives. The game has pretty good A.I. too, allowing NPCs to do non-scripted things such as climb up/down ladders, call and use elevators, crouch through low gaps, decide whether to fight or retreat or call for backup, and actually reload their weapons (the latter shouldn't mean anything, but lots of games have their NPCs use guns that seemingly hold infinite ammunition).

I could go on, but basically, there are reasons why PD is still my favourite game to this day.

On that note, I have been recommending it for a while and I will do so again: Play Ashes: Afterglow. A Doom 2 TC. This is top ten FPS material and answers the question: "what if 2000s FPS weren't mediocre/shit?". It is split into two episodes, ep. 1 is competently made but short and won't blow you away. Ep. 2 however is a full-length FPS campaign and takes things to the next level. Good quality works deserve recognition, so check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=659VuXdJm-s&t=01m

That does look good, I will give it a go, thanks. I've largely been out of the game mod scene for a decade or more, so I'm not at all aware of what the best mods are nowadays. I have played a (very) few mods in the past few years though, such as Duke Nuke: Alien Armageddon, and Half-Life: Echoes, both of which are very good. I also played the final version of Black Mesa, which is good but I still prefer the original HL game. BM looks great, and does a good job of cosmetically enhancing the old game, but gameplay-wise I don't remember any real improvements, and I think that some of the large scale (by HL's standards) fights were actually worse than HL's equivalents. The Xen world was much better than in HL, but even then it still wasn't as enjoyable as the rest of the game (in either BM or HL) and if I ever replay BM then I'll probably do what I do when I replay HL, which is abandon the game when I get to Xen.