Does anyone find the final levels have grown on them over the years?

[665b035cd96e8CyberneticGeneral]

When I first played System Shock 2, I remember being disappointed by the nest of 'The Many' and SHODAN's SS1-inspired reality. However, even though I know the final sections of the game were a little rushed, I love the overall 'concept' of the nest -- exploring the cavernous interiors of a living mass. With the possible exception of the platforming sections, I think stimulating the nerves to create new passages is interesting. It's a shame they couldn't have introduced disturbing 'antibody' enemies of some kind like 'Fantastic Voyage' in 1966, ha. Knowing about SS1, I also comprehend and appreciate the throwback in SHODAN's modified reality a lot more now. Mind you, the Bridge section on the Rickenbacker is still probably my least favourite part of the game.

[665b035cd99d1JDoran]

Not me. I don't like organic/living tissue levels in first person games, to me they never seem much fun, unfortunately. Plus I've played SS2 so often that I have those levels memorized, so there isn't even a sense of discovery or uncertainty for me there (though that isn't the game's fault, of course). And they feel rushed, as though the the game's makers didn't have time to replay and improve them much. Which probbaly was the case, come to think of it. Perhaps if those levels had more areas of the ship accessible, and had more of an ecology (more living creatures, some of whom weren't a threat to the player and instead just existed (in the game's logic, I mean) to keep the organic walls and system alive, such as non-hostile creatures who ignored the player and just transferred 'food' from one area to another, then that might make the levels seem more interesting and convincing.

On the other hand, though I don't like those levels for various reasons (the general ascetics of organic levels, they way they feel so lacking in quality and immersion compared to SS2's levels, the way I just want to get through the levels and not explore then like I do the earlier levels, etc), I don't hate them, not like I do hate the Half-Life Xen levels, for example. Whenever I replay Half-Life, I always stop at the point where Freeman teleports to Xen, as the enjoyment levels drop off a cliff at that point. Even Black Mesa's version of Xen (which is less painful than the originals Xen, and *much* more beautiful, too isn't something I've replayed.

[665b035cda018Jules]

Not me either, while I like the idea of those levels they're simply too rushed and linear to be comparable to the Von Braun levels. JDoran explained it well enough - the strength of SS2's levels was always in how much the entirety of the Von Braun felt like a coherent whole, a world that you could potentially explore however you wanted by creatively using the tools you found in the environment, with just a couple of overarching goals and a story that's never thrown in your face, but left to you to slowly piece together. Non-linearity is the key, and that's precisely what the latters levels aren't.

Like I said though, I do appreciate the idea of those levels. The Rickenbacker could have potentially been a whole ship of its own, rather than just a series of linear corridors, and the Body of the Many had the potential to show the actual ecosystem of the Many at its greatest extent, rather than just some organic fighting environments. The final showdown in virtual reality with a throwback to the Citadel also feels like a smart idea, but again - it's just underdeveloped. Luckily, I do still feel like all those levels are playable enough for me to want to play the game until the end, rather than stopping at the end of the Von Braun.

I don't hate them, not like I do hate the Half-Life Xen levels, for example. Whenever I replay Half-Life, I always stop at the point where Freeman teleports to Xen, as the enjoyment levels drop off a cliff at that point. Even Black Mesa's version of Xen (which is less painful than the originals Xen, and *much* more beautiful, too isn't something I've replayed.

The comparison to Xen is pretty good, even though Xen was not so much rushed as much as it simply was too constrained by the technology. I still find some parts of Xen to be pretty atmospheric - I think Valve nailed the otherwordly feel of those environments pretty well. The more jumping-focused sections are definitely a chore though, and Interloper always felt pretty boring. And the whole Nihilanth boss fight felt so...conventional. I didn't expect an old-school boss fight like that in a game like Half-Life. Black Mesa could have potentially really improved Xen but I felt like they just overdid it - I couldn't bring myself to finish those really long Xen chapters in spite of how impressive it felt that those kind of environments could be built in the old humble Hammer editor.

[665b035cda3a3sarge945]

My big enlightenment moment was the Rickenbacker.

My first few times through it felt like an annoying slog, was tedious to navigate, and the gameplay generally sucked.

As I've played it more over the years I've learned to appreciate it's challenge and it's intricacy. It really is a very cleverly designed map considering how small it actually is and how big it feels.

Because I normally play with auto saves only, and the instant death junp is extremely egregious, I made the Rick Jump Fixer mod that makes the jump not fatal but requires you to walk back around, risking respawns. I feel it improves the Rickenbacker tremendously because that jump really sucks, even when you can quicksave.

Rick2 and Rick3 are both quite bad, though. Short, linear and the bridge is almost entirely pointless as a map.

I understand why SCP changed the bridge to not spawn rumblers out of nowhere, but it also makes the map feel even more empty since it's easy to clear and once you do, it's very easy to finish. Takes minutes.

I really don't like the body of the many or the shodan levels, but they are slowly growing on me. RSD improving the shodan fight and my own randomisation of botm have made them both slightly more interesting, but I still don't think they're remotely close to the same level of quality of the early game.

Nothing compares to hydro and recreation in terms of pure encounter design.

[665b035cda72fCyberneticGeneral]

sarge945
Awesome response. Hopefully the Rickenbacker grows on me too. 

[665b035cda834sarge945]

I'll tell you one thing though, today I discovered the rickenbacker plays AMAZINGLY well with enemy randomisation.