GMDX: Deus Ex Mod.

[666ddb0851f80Join2]

Wow he played extra terrible this time. Then the one moment he plays well it's in non-lethal combat with rubber bullets and the riot prod, of all things.

- looks like you can't pick up ammo from a gun if you don't have its instance in your inventory (31:21). would be nice to just auto grab the ammo from the gun in such a scenario.

How would the game know that you don't want to pick the weapon up before anything? I suppose it could be first click take ammo, second click pickup weapon, but then it'd be doing that all the time for every weapon. I think it's better as it is, because most of the game is/should be played with the inventory full anyway (where I added some code where it does take the ammo and leave the gun).

is double click holstering enabled by default? it probably should be.

It is a straight improvement, though has the minor potential to cause confusion in people that have played the game before. It probably should have been enabled by default regardless...

[666ddb0852401voodoo47]

I suppose it could be first click take ammo, second click pickup weapon

oh yes please. as an option, if you feel uncomfortable dropping it straight at the players.

also watch out, I will be adding stuff to my previous post later today. //edits done.


also, about the Smugglers place - if the weirdness with his bot attacking the player still hasn't been resolved, I'd propose the tripwires being active only if the player sneaks in without giving the Smuggler the password (logically, he would deactivate the defenses for a verified customer).

//realized that the tail propeller on the black chopper spins properly, wonder why this is not possible on the speedboat.

//also, I think the sniper rifle inv size really should be 4x1, it being the same size as sawed-off shotgun just doesn't fit. or maybe make the sawed-off 2x1, it does look pretty small when equipped and observed in a mirror. I however definitely wouldn't mind the nanosword having the same size as the regular sword, 4x1 is pretty annoying for a melee weapon.

[666ddb08525d1Join2]

The model was perhaps made with only entry in mind (spawn on dock, boat is there), not exit (on the way to Battery Park). Maybe they originally had planned for you to leave by chopper or something. Who knows.

##also, about the Smugglers place - if the weirdness with his bot attacking the player still hasn't been resolved

If I recall, that was reluctantly resolved after testers (including yourself) repeatedly nagged. Yes it didn't make sense before but they were fun challenges that escalated in complexity and difficulty each visit, essentially now eradicated. As it was considered fine with the vanilla devs I even had the excuse to favor yet more gamey goodness over muh realism. Regret that one.

[666ddb08526cfvoodoo47]

I don't - never seen it as anything more than an annoyance/oddity.

any comments on the inventory/propeller stuff?

[666ddb0852869Join2]

Propeller was mentioned. It was possible they just didn't do it and we can only speculate why. Propellers are usually present under the water so they probably didn't think it was a necessary detail. If there's water splashing that's even less reason to include it, as it would be concealed anyways.

Maybe Rosodude wants to spawn a crapload of water particles behind the boat as it leaves. Maybe, just maybe it won't look awful. Well, I think it's worth a try.

Snipe inventory...yes it probably should be 4x1. Rosodude is considering setting that back, I think possibly because you mentioned it the other day, I forget exactly. Personally I favour it as it is for a couple reasons, but the icon size is slightly standout, even if there are many other inventory item sizes that are also inconsistent (zyme vial same size as fire extinguisher or armor?).

Not sure if you're familiar with state code Roso, but just in case: best way for the boat you could probably do something like

Code: [Select]

State Interpolating
{
    Function Tick(float DeltaTime)
    {
       spawn stuff here
    }
}

[666ddb08529abvoodoo47]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQyzrrsK4io
- head shooting a civilian should probably take him down (18:46).
- toold 'ya (22:14).
- no death scream? (31:00)

[666ddb0852bc6voodoo47]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vBxNAWRu2o
- marines (outside, friendly if you talk to Vinnie) are visually the same as Fema (bad guys). would be a nice touch to give the marines different uniforms (or just screw it, and make all the bad guys into MJ12 soldiers, problem solved).
- the friendly guys should stay out of the inside yard no matter what happens (5:00).
- the texture is not mapped properly (6:25).
- again, guy talking while stunned (9:08 and 13:56).
- bots (that were put on standby) semi-reactivated after a camera alert (19:00).
- more silent deaths (19:35 and 36:45).
- camera doesn't seem to be doing anything? (32:50) more of those scattered around, if memory serves (45:05).
- would be nice to play this message only when the player is entering, not exiting (40:03).
- light fixture still selectable for no reason (43:24).
- double door doesn't quite fit together (46:27).

[666ddb0852f94ZylonBane]

- marines (outside, friendly if you talk to Vinnie) are visually the same as Fema (bad guys). would be a nice touch to give the marines different uniforms (or just screw it, and make all the bad guys into MJ12 soldiers, problem solved).

FEMA soldiers? Eh? I thought they were all Marines, but the ones inside the base are hostile because you're not supposed to be there.

[666ddb08530a3voodoo47]

according to the guy at the gate, "don't expect any hospitality from the FEMA people inside", so I'm guessing everyone inside who is inhospitable is FEMA?

[666ddb08531dfZylonBane]

Huh, I'd never really thought about that line before. In real life FEMA doesn't have troops, so there's no sensible way to interpret that. The troops certainly shouldn't be MJ12. They wouldn't be operating that openly. Maybe they're just Marines placed under the temporary authority of FEMA.

[666ddb0853301voodoo47]

what I'm trying to say is that the situation when some guys are friendly, while the other some guys aren't is maybe better avoided.

I don't see a problem with MJ12 patrolling around buildings inside a secret naval base.

[666ddb08533fcZylonBane]

Eh, AIs being friendly or hostile depending on where you are isn't a hard concept for players. Lots of Thief missions do it.

It's not a secret base, BTW. It's the Brooklyn Naval Shipyard.

[666ddb08535bevoodoo47]

ok, a secret base inside BNS. had a second look, the marine outside talks about FEMA and the chinese running the show, and all there is are the chinese soldiers and MJ12 troopers, so it's not a stretch to say that FEMA = MJ12 on this map. the patrols could also be changed to chinese soldiers, if we are going with MJ12 having to operate hidden/only inside the dock.

quickly checked a save from my own playthrough (older GMDX 9 version) - you basically got the front bunch of friendly marines, then a layer of unfriendly marines, then a friendly marine inside the entrance to the dock with the freighter, and then MJ12 inside. cameras are also crazy, half of them are unfriendly, half doesn't really care, and they seem to be completely random - for example, the one near the friendly dock guard is unfriendly, but enter the next room and the next two are friendly.


would have to fully replay the level myself to put together a solid recommendation, and that will have to wait. at this moment, all I'm saying that this map requires some attention. so for now, all I've got is just make the cameras ignore the player only where appropriate (like near the friendly dock guard), and maybe change the unfriendly layer of marines into something else.
[cam.jpg expired]

[666ddb0853750Join2]

Yeah the cameras are inconsistent on this map in a couple places. As are the guards.

I've always been conscious of the guards (did you notice they also have UNATCO trooper voices (stealth/combat barks)? Nothing can really be done about it, there's no suitable alternative). But this issue of cameras kinda passed me by, but some are definitely justified e.g the friendly soldier in the security room (pictured above) possibly changed them. Or because it's the guest entrance, cameras are not searching for trespassers. There was that one in the Ammo Storage warehouse that was friendly for no reason, that's definitely weird. This is all vanilla stuff. But they're not the only friendly cameras mixed in with hostile cameras throughout the game. Most of the time it absolutely makes sense, but the ammo storage one definitely doesn't. Edit: Nor does that one camera in the guest entrance (pictured) while the other guest area cams are friendly...

so yeah, one or two cameras definitely need their settings changed.

[666ddb085393cvoodoo47]

the cameras should probably only be friendly in areas where civilians (are allowed to) hang out, and where people can trespass under normal circumstances. ex. the camera near the friendly guard = friendly, camera in the bot tunnels = unfriendly (nobody should be hanging out there).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Z1qIhHdMA
- bit of getting stuck going on there (0:35).
- throwing knives not being recovered? (1:47, 2:04)
- sailors seem to mostly ignore unconscious bodies? (7:55) generally, AIs seem to be pretty uncaring about bodies in this area.
- locker has infinite durability (12:34, 32:05, also a grate at 44:31, and 1:00:10). infinite durability should only be used where absolutely necessary, I think (quest stuff, massive blast/steel doors and similar).
- I think the rocket blast (16:24) got rid of all the doors at the upper floor (18:06).
- maybe kill the sparks and light flicker should the player fix the electricity? (43:38)
- door has no keypad from one side (55:12). intentional?
- gas grenade not generating any gas? (57:34)
- civilians actually trying to reach the exit would be a nice touch (1:03:35).

- fluorescent light selectable for no reason.


ah, and "perks" sounds maybe a bit too fallouty, "traits" would probably work better.

[666ddb0853b12voodoo47]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogob63rU7mI
- again, a very silent death (9:38).
- can't grab a ladder (17:51).
- looks like the water level is just high enough to annoyingly prevent the player from shooting sometimes (27:20).
- dud crate? (37:30)
- negative credits? (38:56)
- again, throwing knife lost? (1:02:50)


random bit I remembered - Biomod or Shifter had that cool thing where you could rightclick an unaware AI to steal their keys (maybe something that could be governed by the stealth skill). wouldn't say no to a bit of Garrett in GMDX.

[666ddb0853f33RoSoDude]

I don't see any issue with the marine skins outside the Naval Shipyard. It seems highly fitting to me, and is a nice bit of variety from the constant MJ12 goons you see through the whole game. Will definitely look into the cameras, though.

As for Throwing Knives, they currently have a 70% chance to stick in NPCs on hit, with up to 5 retrievable from a corpse. I didn't love this for a variety of reasons (it is unclear to the player under what conditions they will retrieve a knife, if it has something to do with hit location, etc.), so in my fork I made it a 100% chance to stick but with only one knife retrievable from a corpse. The interaction is very clear this way, is consistent with the fleshy grab sound of a single knife, and encourages the player to use knives judiciously and efficiently.

Highlightable lights shouldn't be a thing IMO, as occasionally highlightable map decorations are used as puzzle solutions. This is not an area where someone would expect to be able to interact with something (frobbable power outlets are a nice gag, though).

The water level in the Paris sewers was definitely more annoying in vanilla (half the time you could swim, the other half you could walk), but may be worth lowering another tad.

Negative credits occur when the user overdraws from accounts using master hacking. You get 50/100/150% of the value of all connected accounts when you hack an ATM. Same as vanilla.

[666ddb0854076voodoo47]

full retrievability was supposed to be the whole point of the throwing knives, but good enough, I suppose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-006BCGsM
- yep, LAMs o' stealth are still a thing (12:56).
- a very abrupt map transition (31:03).
- text glitching out (35:20).
- tree model flawed, disconnected branches (44:52).

[666ddb085420cRoSoDude]

The whole point? What about offering a method of silent ranged lethal stealth kills that scales with Low-Tech, which otherwise has only melee weapons and the pepper gun? Knives couldn't be retrieved from corpses in vanilla, period, only from level geometry. I also like corpse retrieval, but I don't think it needs to grant you full return if you're sloppy (that's why there are more knives to be found as loot).

Text glitching is a D3D10 renderer issue, nothing can be done on our end.

Hmm, I don't know if the LAM behavior is unexpected, given that the cop is friendly and wasn't in close vicinity. Obviously you want some reaction from nearby NPCs especially in hostile zones (which should already be the case), but explosives can also be important for exploration in civilian zones. Even if the cop came to investigate he wouldn't put two and two together and become hostile to the player, unless such behavior were implemented explicitly.

[666ddb085436evoodoo47]

yeah, using LAMs is surprisingly stealthy - in one scenario (lockers in the Versalife MJ12 barracks), they actually were stealthier than lockpicks (picking a lock would make the AIs in the next room aware and kill the player, while LAMs were ok).

considering how rare the tknives are, they are (were) not viable unless retrievable from corpses and objects, an improvement I much enjoy. my idea was that losing one should be a rare thing (like throwing it outside the level, having to leave it in an area with too much enemies etc), making it an almost fully reusable resource - one of those is not a problem every once in a while.

[666ddb0854504Join2]

Strongly disagree with the notion of infinite throwing knives.

As for pickpocketing, my response to the same request two or so days ago:

A number of people asked me to implement Biomod pickpocking over the years.
That's a solid :nah: [goggles emoticon]
there's approximately 5 to 8 NPCs that have keys in the game (well, maybe about 10 lets say). Without meta knowledge this mechanic encourages players to go around frobbing everyone's backside only to be rewarded with nothing. You could extend it to weapons or ammo to address that, but then you could just disarm everyone from behind with a mere right click including the strongest of enemies, and in general NPCs just do not have diverse enough inventories to justify it.

[666ddb08548davoodoo47]

aware that pickpocketing would be a rather useless thing, but it'd still be kind of fun. maybe some extra loot only acquirable by stealing could be added - a candy bar, few credits, that sort of thing.

infinite throwing knives.

almost infinite, if you are very careful with them. I don't mind that, just like I don't mind a crowbar that never gets dull or breaks.

[666ddb0854a6eJoin2]

Crowbar has no ranged attack and deals less than half the damage, plus is double the inventory size.

[666ddb0854ce3voodoo47]

the problem with tknives is that while they may be considered a bit too good (debatable. they still aren't the most practical weapon to use) when fully retrievable, they are practically useless if not (because there just isn't enough of them around. same problem with demolition expert builds where the player would want to rely heavily on thrown explosives, but can't, as they are too rare, making a demolition based build much less attractive, and going any further than trained is pretty much a waste of points). but we've already had that discussion, I believe (wasn't aware that there is a chance of not retrieving - guess I was either lucky or didn't notice in my last playthrough). I'm quite happy with the current GMDX tknife setup, the occasional loss shouldn't be too tragic. not too fond of the 1 retrievable knife per corpse on the fork, but I'm guessing it's nothing that would limit their use too much. there were a couple of objects that were still consuming them when hit for no good reason, I need to check that sometime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB9rL2TxRck
- somewhat unfitting bark from Nicolette (17:52).
- Nicolette should perhaps park herself at a safer spot (18:43). would be nice if a small "goodbye/I'm staying here" cutscene could be added, if the audio exists.
- bad floor texture? (33:11) also barrels there could use a better model (a tin barrel using the wood texture is not quite cutting it, wooden barrels have a different shape).
- selectable candle holder (34:16) that does nothing (I think there were more of them around, mentioned in my own reports).
- corpses should ignore small object physics (38:55). a bit of (potential) clipping is always better than bad collisions.
- the wine bottles are friggin' gigantic (39:16).
- bit of wood texture seems out of place (41:38)
- corpse physics crapping out a bit (57:36).
- AIs instantly finding the player despite silencer? (59:30 - 1:01:15)