Somehow I missed this post.  This guy did a terrible review of Tron 2.0, so I'm not surprised you think his System Shock 2 review is also less than stellar (based on the pffft comment).

I watched it myself, and actually thought he wasn't doing too bad this time.  Until I reached the 7 minute mark, that is.  Then it basically devolved into how SS2 should be more like the BioShock series, and that it's simply too hard for the current generation of gamers.

In terms of technical competency: yes, the video was good at that.  I agree.  I also agree that a fan site like this should hear opinions from someone like him, even if they're not going to be popular.  Nobody should have to - or want to - preach to the choir.  I hate that type of fanboyism, where a community simply can't handle any criticism of their favorite game (or insert property/product, here).

However . . . while I don't have an issue with a reviewer's subjective opinions, I do have a problem when he/she gets objective facts wrong.

And that's why I didn't like his Tron 2.0 review.  Because it had several factual errors.  He didn't do his homework. Which completely undermines his position as a reviewer.  If he can't get simple facts straight, then what other aspects of the review did he get wrong?

For his System Shock 2 review, I didn't notice any factual errors.  (Then again, I'm not quite as knowledgeable about System Shock as some of you guys are.)  So I can't automatically dismiss him, like I did with the other review.  But, again, I find myself disagreeing with his conclusion about another game.

Am I biased toward both games?  Probably.   Still doesn't change the fact that at least one of his reviews was demonstrably bad.

Good to see you again Red.

Thanks.   I'm always lurking here (and on TTLG), but the release of the SCP got me to do some posting again.

I'm also looking forward to checking out your mods, and many of the other ones, that have been released since I last played SS2.  (Need to get away from my own mod, for a bit.)

Now... if Zylon Bane is still around, I could use his caustic wit to scrub some of the gunk off a few of my remaining neurons. 

Don't put the pussy on the pedestal, man.

 

No, System Shock 2 still holds the crown. It does everything the others do not, and then some. All it's major problems are primarily of the times, engine-bound. Everything else is design genius.

No, System Shock 2 still holds the crown. It does everything the others do not, and then some. All it's major problems are primarily of the times, engine-bound. Everything else is design genius.

Ignoring Bioshock, since it's a direct spiritual successor, here's some games that have done aspects of System Shock 2 better:

The Mass Effect series uses hacking, with varying different minigames (depending on which game). Quite frankly, it's hacking mechanic is more fun, with actual minigames, unlike SS2 which had "click random checkboxes and hope it works".

Dead Space refined a lot of the lighting and sound effects work, providing atmospheric tension that was way more frightening. Admittedly better technology in this case, but it's something that SS2 did that another game is doing.

Fallout 3 used a repair/maintenance system, and unlike SS2 it actually made some amount of sense: Fallout 3 is a post apocalypse where every gun you find is 200+ years old, and proper cleaning and maintenance materials are probably very scarce. Requiring a repair skill to keep the guns from falling apart at least fits the theme. Conversely SS2 is set aboard the most advanced star ship mankind has ever created, and yet the guns fall apart after 20 rounds are fired through them! I'd swallow the idea a little more easily if it were explained that they were made out of futuristic ceramics or plastics to save weight on the Von Braun, but we get no such explanation.

The Deus Ex series has handled the themes of humanity vs. cybernetics way more thoughtfully than SS2's annelids vs. SHODAN. It even gave the player 3 different endings, as opposed to SS2's "naah".

When it comes to the faulterings of the design genius:

1. skills are absolutely not balanced. The repair skill is utterly useless, as auto repair items will take care of any broken guns you find that you really want. The exotic weapons skill is pointless, because you have to wait forever to get access to them. by the time you get access to the crystal shard, you don't want to be using melee weapons, and by the time you get any of the worm weapons, the game is practically over. And yes, I know you can collect puddles of worms off the floor if you have a beaker, but the game doesn't explain that to you, and you would probably throw the worms out even if you did collect them, because they are a waste of inventory space. I could get nitpicky about how some skills are better than others, but my point stands that the game's "design genius" wasn't in the RPG system.

2. SHODAN is a weak antagonist. From what I've read about SS1, SHODAN was playing Xanatos speed chess with the Hacker, always two steps ahead of the player up until the very end of the game. SHODAN in SS2 is annoying, and shows very little intelligence. While I was playing, the game seemed to convey that she was broken. She was helpless without Polito, by the time she unveils herself to the player, she only has Goggles to lean on to do her bidding, she has a really annoying stutter that is difficult to understand, and she can't put up a facade very well. It's like the only part of SHODAN that survived the crash was the crazy ego. The weakest part of SHODAN aside from the seriously annoying speech effects was her monologing. She flipped back and forth between "you're and icky insect, eeww" and "you're going to be my avatar soon" within the span of the same email. SHODAN had one, one single creepy line in the entire game, and that was when she was talking about your transformation, and she almost affectionately whispers "here's some more cyber modules." at the end of it. Then she dumped 10 emails afterward on me that completely killed the tension.

3. The body of the Many is stupid. All of it. When I saw it, I said to myself "oh no, not another Xending!" (Xending is a portmanteau of Xen and Ending, referring to the last level of Half Life) . The body of the Many makes no sense, as the annelids had a pretty sturdy hive mind way before making a giant flesh blob womb cave, the giant structures would be inefficient, and thematically it retards the annelids from a single mind with many bodies, to a single mind with a single body.

Anyway, I've probably been trolled, but there you are.

That parallels with Asimov's dueling visions of the future in his Foundation series: Gaia (the Many), where all becomes one and the self fades away into meaninglessness, or Solaria (SHODAN) where the individual became so powerful a "man" really could become an island, assuming enough technology at his disposal. So powerful that each person would need an entire planet for his domain and anyone less powerful was in imminent danger of being immediately killed as a potential threat or nuisance. Both visions were anathema to the idea of free individuals living cooperatively in a society while retaining their self identities.

all corporations are evil.

Also, was TriOptimum evil in SS1? I get the sensation that they were, but then they seriously got put in the back seat for SS2.

First I have to say that I'm not a very political person. So I would not take side for neither capitalism nor socialism/communism. (Not implying that this is the conflict going on in Sys2)
All the years I played System Shock 2, I considered TriOp to be the "bad guys" and the UNN the "good guys". I thought of the the UNN to be some kind of €U or, duh!, UN. Then there was some talk here on sbf..sma about how the UNN is a military organisation. Playing the game you have to agree to this, but considering the game universe there is more to it. According to shodan.wikia

the United Nations Nominate (UNN) was created by the ineffectual governments of Earth's nations to stop the influence of mega governmental corporations abuse and enforce strict corporate laws and shut down corporations that are non-compliant to the new law.

So basically the idea (and you can go and call me naive) was to get "power" back to goverments representing the "people". Assuming that this works (yeah, I am naive) and is a way to get rid of opression in favour of democracy and peace, I'm all for it.
But there are catches:
- The UNN's slogan is "Unity secured by force", indicating they are willing to use violence in order to protect its matters. That is not the way to go; compare it to the UN forces: United Nations peacekeeping (seems to be the official slogan). Don't get me wrong, I know that there is also violence involved. They are not coming with only flowers in there riffles. But there is a fundamental difference between the two premises in my opinion
- UNN seems to be taking over function of a religion, as Diego says

God save the UNN*

That's to "american"** for me. "In god we trust, god bless..." isn't the premise I expect from a modern society open for everyone.


*her weapons sure won't^^
** no offence meant

In the manual the UNN gets away a lot worse than anyone else. They are described as a bureaucratic monstrosity, stifling innovation. Also they apparently hold elections while at the same they haven't been able to win the hearts and minds of the masses. Which is a bit of a contradiction if you ask me.

The OSA's description in the game is built on Scientology, some new age/esoteric stuff, neuro-linguistic programming... Shady indeed.