Vurt's Organics Mod Troubles

[665c9ca6cd845voodoo47]

on a mac, things are bound to be different.

[665c9ca6cd9cdKolya]

I'm done overhauling the newbie guide. Sure hasn't gotten easier to update with all the styling around, but it's worth it?

[665c9ca6cde58Marvin]

I'm done overhauling the newbie guide. Sure hasn't gotten easier to update with all the styling around, but it's worth it?

What? No, that's terrible. How dare you!


(Yes, it's fine)

[665c9ca6cdf79voodoo47]

yeah, looking good.

[665c9ca6ce340Quindorrian]

I'll have to test this on a Windows machine later. This probably is a bug in the Nemo file manager (file roller) I'm using...
Hey Quindorrian, what did you exactly mean with this? Are you talking about the same thing with "Extract here"?

Hey Colonel.  Thanks for confirming I'm not insane, hahah.  On a mac, you have to use a different extractor.  I use StuffIt Expander.  I literally just click the file and pick where I want to extract it to and that is it.  Mac is a lot simpler than Windows and significantly less buggy/glitchy.  Not that I'm trying to start a Windows v/s Mac argument, but I can never resist the chance to take a jab at Windows

[665c9ca6ce6b4Quindorrian]

Sounds more like a user error.

Kolya, I have a lot of respect for you as I have noticed you've been actively supporting System Shock for a very long time and I'm appreciative.  But, I must take a moment to defend myself and state that this is not a user error on my part.  I know I must seem like a real idiot to you experienced modders, but I am honestly a very skilled computer user.  And, I am all too familiar with Windows (it's not like I am just some Mac guy).  Most of my computer work these days is with music (my band work) and art, so I don't avidly game like I used to.  The Mac suits my style for this reason in addition to me being completely sick of Windows.  So, I may be a bit rusty on modding games and such, but I certainly know how to do a great many things on both PC and Mac and unzipping files is something I would hardly consider a challenge or a complicated endeavor. 

[665c9ca6ce815voodoo47]

I'd say that in this particular case, the extraction tool is to blame, as it apparently can produce two different results when asked to do the same operation (my guess is that the proper folder is created ONLY when there are more files and folders in the archive, if there is just one the extractor won't bother).

but, as mentioned quite a few times now, the point is that contents of each mod archive from systemshock.org need to be extracted into their own folder, which then must be placed into the DMM folder. the user needs to be capable of accomplishing this - so if the extraction tools are bugging out, things will have to be corrected manually.

[665c9ca6cea31Kolya]

So it was a Mac error AND a user error. Go figure.

In my experience Apple puts a lot more work than Microsoft into usability and polishing the interface, which ends up with them hiding what a computer really is and does and instead turning it into a kind of magic box that can apparently guess your wishes. That's how it caters to people who actually don't like computers too much and want things to "just work".

I don't want things to just work. I like errors. Because I want to know how things work, so I can improve them. And I hate it when software tries to be too clever. I feel bossed around and sold for stupid then. (Shut up, I'm making this an English idiom.)

I understand that both are valid approaches. As human beings we like aesthetically pleasing surfaces, we like when things run smoothly and we can focus on what we actually wanted to do, instead of honing our tools. It's no surprise that Macs are preferred by artists and musicians. But we are also curious beings, who like to pick things apart and put them together again in creative ways.

Now it seems that this particular error in the StuffIt extractor, which has been part of the Mac OS since at least 15 years, bit you in the ass because it tried to be clever for you. And as a Mac user you are not used to having to check the results of what your computer does for you. That doesn't make you an idiot by far, I'm sure you achieve great things with your computer. But it shows one of the pitfalls of software that tries to be clever.

[665c9ca6cf0bfJML]

I'd say that in this particular case, the extraction tool is to blame, as it apparently can produce two different results when asked to do the same operation (my guess is that the proper folder is created ONLY when there are more files and folders in the archive, if there is just one the extractor won't bother). [...]

[...] Now it seems that this particular error in the StuffIt extractor, which has been part of the Mac OS since at least 15 years, bit you in the ass because it tried to be clever for you. And as a Mac user you are not used to having to check the results of what your computer does for you. That doesn't make you an idiot by far, I'm sure you achieve great things with your computer. But it shows one of the pitfalls of software that tries to be clever.

Sounds legitimate (Flora overhaul has more than 1 file inside zip and also creates the folder with "Extract here"), and it seems that the p7zip for Linux with File Roller does the same "clever" shit. I see your point Kolya.

"It's not a bug, it's a feature."

[665c9ca6cf783Quindorrian]

So it was a Mac error AND a user error. Go figure.

In my experience Apple puts a lot more work than Microsoft into usability and polishing the interface, which ends up with them hiding what a computer really is and does and instead turning it into a kind of magic box that can apparently guess your wishes. That's how it caters to people who actually don't like computers too much and want things to "just work".

I don't want things to just work. I like errors. Because I want to know how things work, so I can improve them. And I hate it when software tries to be too clever. I feel bossed around and sold for stupid then. (Shut up, I'm making this an English idiom.)

I understand that both are valid approaches. As human beings we like aesthetically pleasing surfaces, we like when things run smoothly and we can focus on what we actually wanted to do, instead of honing our tools. It's no surprise that Macs are preferred by artists and musicians. But we are also curious beings, who like to pick things apart and put them together again in creative ways.

Now it seems that this particular error in the StuffIt extractor, which has been part of the Mac OS since at least 15 years, bit you in the ass because it tried to be clever for you. And as a Mac user you are not used to having to check the results of what your computer does for you. That doesn't make you an idiot by far, I'm sure you achieve great things with your computer. But it shows one of the pitfalls of software that tries to be clever.

The thing with Windows and Microsoft in general is that it is so error-prone because it is bloated.  It has an overly complex registry and file system and has become a convoluted spaghetti mess of an OS.  And, it's not nearly as open-sourced and free-for-all developer friendly as it claims to be.  I never realized how bad Windows was until I got a Mac.  I became so used to the "program is not responding" messages that I didn't realize what it was like to not see them.  As an example for comparison, I installed a Windows 10 partition on my Mac.  Interesting enough, the boot time for Windows 10 was a total of 60 seconds with a fresh install - updated in totality (I'm including sitting there at the desktop waiting for the hour-glass to disappear and the time it takes Windows to properly initialize my display adapter settings).  OS X on the other hand, takes a total of 7 seconds.  Additionally, even on a fresh install of Windows 10, I still saw numerous glitches.  It works OK, but I am overwhelmingly dissatisfied with this.

For me, what I've come to realize is that I enjoy productivity on my computer.  I don't enjoy errors, bugs, restarts, or crashes.  I'm trying to get crap done!  Some (perhaps yourself) do enjoy those errors and like to tinker with their computer hours on hours.  I know computers very well.  Hell, I built my own many times over.  But, what I've learned about myself is that I do not like problems on my computer.  Plenty of nights I have spent trying to figure out something with Microsoft's garbage and that was time I'd rather have back to spend with my family.  My Mac is problem free on the OS X side and it is actually fun to use this computer.  That is why I've become a big Mac fan.

This being said, I may go try this with a different extractor on my Windows partition, but I grow weary.  Stuffit has worked flawlessly for everything but those specific mods, so idk if I am convinced that it is the extractor.  I'm just glad I got all the mods to work on my Mac at this point.  And, I am appreciative of the help you have all given me.  I have been following you guys quietly for a long time, as I am a huge System Shock fan.  To see all these cool mods years later really warms my heart.  Thank you guys!