SSR: System Shock Kickstarter

[665b2073546d0la0s]

Your thoughts echo mine above, or my thoughts echo yours.. You are spot on. It think basically that what this all boils down to, is that the people running this, the lead designer/game director lacks great taste. This is like a classic movie being remade by a Brett Ratner type (almost like Manhunter / Red Dragon).

[665b207354852icemann]

Totally agree with your comments as well. I completely missed Lansing's email due to being in battle.

[665b207354fccXkilljoy98]

icemannIntro doesn't add much from being playable, and really it's barely playable, and lacks the energy and iconicness of the original. I think there is some music, but it is faint and not too noticable.

Yeah I don't like the new Diego voice actor either, it feels lacking, and doesn't give off the same energy that the original did. The accent and older feel to it is something I am not a fan of either

Ambiant music I don't like either, have mentioned it a million times but it still upsets me, glad I can listen to music on top of the game but I hope an integrated option becomes available sometime.

New and changed locations are interesting I will say that and cyberspace has a new spacey look at times, tho not a fan of the new transition and I prefer the 2001 A Space Odyssey type one from the other demos

Cyberspace is interesting, on its own I like it a lot (aside from missing the original music), tho it gives off a different feel than the original, more cyber than space

Vending machines are interesting though the seem a small part, didn't see upgrade benches anywhere

No beta access for me though, I wish they had opened it up for all backers given how many delays there have been

[665b2073550c2icemann]

The cyberspace feels like an arcade game if anything. Frantic and very linear from what I've seen of it. The 2nd one in Medical added in some new enemy types (dragon fly thing, some big other enemy), which was cool.

[665b20735523cZylonBane]

Haven't tried the new version yet, but it sounds like instead of putting effort into fixing what they'd fucked up, they've been adding all-new fuckups.

[665b207355333la0s]

So true. I actually don’t think they have the capacity to identify any fuckups

[665b2073556a5voodoo47]

well, we did our best - the full analysis ZB posted a while ago is pure gold served on a silver plate, handed to them just like that. if they chose to ignore it, well, looks like they want to learn the hard way.

anyway, "7/10, too bad they didn't listen to ZB's analysis posted on systemshock.org" is my prediction, feel free to quote me on that.

[665b2073557dbicemann]

If they don't fix the intro and stuff I witnessed and noted about in the latest build, the game may be released to little to no fanfare and not do well financially. I hope not. Early days anyway, with backer beta testing only starting tomorrow.

Video link above updated to higher quality version.

[665b207355d84RocketMan]

I didn't bother watching the whole thing but I did watch the whole intro up to the gameplay and... uhhh... I mean you can see the raw potential in what they're trying to do but damn.  You know, most of the complaints would go unnoticed by the common gamer but are we to use that as a benchmark or are we to assume that the benchmark ought to be an avid SS fan?

Game box on shelf is indeed stupid.  Makes no sense as an easter egg.
Why do the cliche "try to log into the high security network normally and get denied before doing the hacking you know you have to do anyway" thing?  When they did it in the SS1 intro it was buried in lines of code so it mostly went unnoticed.
Hacker cracks his knuckles like he's going to do some tough work, runs an exe that he probably downloaded from Softpedia, hacking complete!  Triop IT department should be fired.
Access Main Program Grid (In Samuel Jackson's voice) - Find Nedry!  Check the vending machines!
Then the Triop forces show up in less than 10 seconds, like they were waiting outside his door waiting for the director to cue them to storm his place.
He gives them the finger like he's done this shtick a million times before, yet he's got his place all decked out, filled with swag, like he's been there a while.
Diego looks and sounds weird, nothing like he's depicted in SS1
Diego's office reminds me of a scene out of Bioforge... maybe the pixelated robots in the corner.  Ees thees good or bad?
Again with the 2 second hacking bullshit using GUI that looks like it was made by Apple. Although at least they threw in some hex editing or something to make it look like he's doing a little more actual work.  After all what the hell do they need this guy for if they have the almighty battering ram!
Cherry on the shit sunday is him waking up to the most deprecated boot screen in history.  My Pentium 120 looks identical to this when booting.  Parallel port?  Really?  They spelled MBR as MBA.  At this point I'm getting a bit too picky but it's just lame for anyone who knows about computers... which probably most fans do.

Similar tactics work just fine in movies and games because the audience won't pick up on the inaccuracies... but that's your base assumption if you're going to be sloppy with your techy stuff.  In this case, where everyone playing the game loves either SS or cyberpunk, you're not going to get away with laziness.  You have to have Star Trek or Alien level design (fake yet plausible, and well thought out)


EDIT:

I ended watching a bit more and to their credit they did a pretty good job on the cyberspace.  Livened it up without screwing it up. 

[665b20735607fTwist]

I seem to have some kind of gremlin in my System Shock demo. It won't keep any of my configuration settings and the controls are completely messed up. I can't even get beyond the first apartment because my character keeps walking in random, odd directions. I initially thought my gamepad was causing the issue, but I've since tried disconnecting it and uninstalling its drivers and the problem persists.

I don't see a ton of other people experiencing what I'm experiencing, so there must be something unique about my situation. I don't know why... Windows 10, GTX 1080 Ti... nothing exotic about my system or install.

But it was such a spectacularly janky first impression it's left me backing away very slowly.

[665b2073564c4sarge945]

YouTube video of the new demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ9BtA7cVl4

Wow, it's almost like a quick minute or so cutscene is a much simpler and more effective storytelling device than having the hacker manually go through their entire daily routine.

I honestly hope this entire apartment level gets cut. The original intro is extremely 90's and cheesy, but it perfectly sets up the game without 10 minutes of extra crap. This does the exact opposite.

Also, Diego's introduction dialogue is WAY more cringe and edgy than in the original game, and to it's extreme detriment. Diego to me always seemed like a professional, who didn't really give much of a shit except how he can benefit from a situation. In this he's more like a generic villain with random threats and "look how evil I am" vibes.

I can understand them wanting to have an apartment bit to add some world building. If they kept that in and just switched to a cutscene for the diego bit, then back to gameplay for Medical, I would be totally okay with it.

[665b207356815icemann]

Wow, it's almost like a quick minute or so cutscene is a much simpler and more effective storytelling device than having the hacker manually go through their entire daily routine.

It's also just more cyberpunk. Cyberpunk isn't just about cyber augmentations. It's also about a general aesthetic, a style of universe, characters who act in certain ways, companies (or megacorps) who's employees behave in a particular style. Think of Robocop, Total Recall, Bladerunner etc etc. The characters in this game lack that.

There's just a loss of emotion, that there was there in spades in the original. And I'm not saying that the original was perfect or anything. Far from it. You feel in it in the cinematics and audio logs particularly.

[665b207356c11noiceinmydrink]

I pretty much echo every other sentiment in this thread - I had a go with this on my Xbox gamepad and the implementation needs a bit of work to say the least. Inventory management is a major pain in the ass; it relies on a cursor being used instead of going through your inventory items individually with the stick/d-pad. If you're looting a crate or a corpse you have to manually drag it across with your analog stick instead of being able to press left a couple of times. I know there's a 'take all' button but sometimes I don't want the empty crisp packet, mmkay?

Deus Ex got the tetris inventory on a controller right 10 years ago so there's no real excuse for it not to work now - games should never rely on a cursor for the interface except for any weird exceptional circumstance that no doubt someone will think of.

Another very strange but major issue is that remapping the gamepad controls doesn't seem to work. (I see Twist has mentioned this as I'm going over my post) I'm not entirely ruling this out as a me problem, but I remapped Lean to RS click, crouch to LS click, sprint to B and jump to A (I think, it may be the other way round but whatever). The remapped controls didn't work however X (the 'interact' button) now all of a sudden uses my battery packs for some reason?

Not sure if anyone else stated this but I think the audio logs are appalling. "Drama... S--school... overacting... too-many.... pauses! S-stutters!" What gives, are they trying to impersonate the infamous Sad SHODAN? I understand the OG System Shock isn't renowned for stellar VA work outside of SHODAN but I'd rather have "bland" voice acting that gets information and emotion across effectively than this overdramatic nonsense.

The game is apparently meant to be out next month so it's probably too late now but I dread opening every audio log, it completely takes me out of the game whenever I'm not using up battery packs when I try and open a door but forget I have to turn my ass around to press the button.

Fully agreed with the new intro as well, unnecessary at best and egregious at worst with Diego's "I'm Obviously The Bad Guy!" voice acting. Best left on the cutting room floor I think.

I'll finish off with a positive; Cyberspace is still excellent I think, they're pretty much nailed that in my opinion.

[665b207356d42ZylonBane]

All interpretations of this analogy are correct.

[665b207356e88Xkilljoy98]

Here are some areas from the demo that are different than the previous one, there are more but these are some examples

[665b207357010Xkilljoy98]

 New Machines

[665b207357169Xkilljoy98]

Hackers Apartment

[665b20735731eXkilljoy98]

And lastly a few more things

[665b207357649vurt]

looks pretty good i think

[665b207357788System]

Круто!

[665b207357863voodoo47]

this is an english speaking forum, so english, would you kindly.

[665b207357d8cHikari]

ZylonBane
While I wouldn't go quite that hyperbolic? It is very confusing that they made everything bulky and clunky and looking like a fisher price toy.

I'm annoyed at how much this community, the folk that are the built in audiance and backers of the remake's kickastarter, esentially got ignored. Hell I remember and was part of the giant feedback doc from the initial demo and many of those issues were never addressed (the pixilated graphics issue being one of them.)

Rebecca's lines are better than the demo, but the current structure feels less 'I know your part in this, help fix it Or Else' and still has that 'oh thank god a survivor' vibe. Given this game is very cyberpunk the idea that Hacker isn't doing this out of a sense of obligation, or at least rebecca isn't hedging on any sense of obligation tracks for the setting.

There is no initial note from the hacker to himself

Sound design goes all over the place. Notably, the pipe swing feels... Wimpy and audio would really assist there.

The music, however, I actually enjoy.

Hoping that mod support will be a thing since even though it is unfair to effectivly beg the community to fix shit, AGaiN, that seems to be what is going to have to happen.

Speaking of sound. Diego just plain sounds wrong. In my feedback on Iceman's playthrough I'd noted a lot of it was synth but on re-plays both of video and of the game itself? They really fucked up on the VA choice. Honestly, I wish they'd gotten the guy that VA'd Nef Anyo from Warframe to do voicework here. He I know at least can give that 'corpo slimeball' act, and the guy they have voicing Diego isn't putting any sort of heart into it.

I trust Zylon to have done a thorough blow-by-blow on everything this has fallen down on because for all my disgust at the man, this is quite literally his wheelhouse and it is one of those things if I were nightdive I would honestly WANT him to be brutal about. the unfortunate truth is that they chose Not to listen to the one set of people who care enough about these details

The Kickstarter was in 2016.
It is 2023.

This game has been in development for SEVEN. YEARS. Swapped engines at least once. Swapped dev teams. And while I'm glad it's finally being released? I am disappointed in the final result. Seven years. that is a hell of a lot of time for a course correction to have happened that didn't happen. I am unsure how to feel beyond disappointed, yet also glad it's actually rolling out.

I will end with one thing. For those playing under Linux and are using steam. Right-click, go down to properties, and under advanced options add 'CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV %command' so that mouse works in the game as well as in the menu.

[665b207357ee3icemann]

To address the second paragraph - I see it as that we are not their target audience. Hence why not 1 thing we've pointed out has been addressed. The issue with that approach is then well who is going to spread word about it. Many of the backers (that I have spoken to) have their issues with the games state too.

Its still fixable, but whether it does, I'm really doubting it. And I have my doubts after playing the latest demo of its chances of being successful. Even the really good immersive sims have had a track record of not doing well money wise.

[665b2073583a6Xkilljoy98]

HikariIt's been 8 years since it was announced since iirc it was announced in late 2015.

8 years is a long time, I was still in high school when this game was announced, since then I have started and finished college, have had 5 jobs, moved out into my own apartment, and done other things too. IMO they need to do something to make up for the constant delays, like maybe open the beta up to all backers, or give an OST option, IDK do something.

Though what about the music did you like?, since to me it doesn't fit, is kinda forgettable, and lacks a lot of what the original brought.