SSR: System Shock Kickstarter

[665aedeb9fcadXkilljoy98]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/3821451

Also it is weird to think that something I have spent so much time documenting and talking about, over 7 and 1/2 years, despite having meh feelings towards at best is coming out in less than 24 hours.

As far as reviews goes I have seen a few

Gmanlives one was surprisingly disappointing as I usually like his reviews

Nth Reviews was ok/meh, not terrible but hit or miss in places, has some good points but could be better

Boulder Punch one is very good

All others are just meh, with the DreamcastGuy one being awful and full of (IMO) bad and confusing takes. Tho that was the only one I can say I disliked. 

Anyway, I shall play it tomorrow, might stream it idk, curious to see what all is different from Beta.

[665aedeba00d0sverXRazum]

also, no SS2 style notes/quest log? with all the (sometimes somewhat unwanted) additions, one would expect at least a few that actually matter. scribbling on a piece of paper is not the kind of retro experience most people are interested in, I'd imagine.

Boulder Patch said there is a waypoint system on Mission Difficulty 1, however the build he received didn't feature this, so we don't know how exactly it was implemented.

[665aedeba057fsarge945]

Also on the AI art thing, I think AI art has its place but yeah we should support actual artists

People seem to have noticed that others don't like the remake, and instead of formulating their own opinions, jump on the hate bandwagon because "something something AI art"

The whole thing is ludicrous.

[665aedeba06acsverXRazum]

There it is I guess. But not for everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtqQwMCuqxc

[665aedeba07f7icemann]

Installing now. So will see how the finished build is.

[665aedeba0969sarge945]

I just played about 2 hours (almost finished medical deck) of the full version. The good news is a lot of the bugs were fixed. The bad news is absolutely none of the gameplay issues were addressed. Melee is still floaty (although personally I never felt like the melee was that bad), the recycling mechanic and "mario coins" are essentially the same, it still plays animations constantly, the the AI is still very confused.

They say there will be a big patch shortly after release, but at the moment this is basically a technically improved version of the backer beta, but the gameplay is basically the same.

[665aedeba0aaala0s]

Where did you read about the big patch?

[665aedeba0befPacmikey]

I can't believe it actually came out. Never thought the day would come. Better 5 years late than never!

[665aedeba121aSuperV1234]

I've played for almost 3 hours. I don't really know what it is about it, but it's just not fun for me. Here's a bunch of thoughts:

- I hate the recycling/scrap mechanic. It pads the length of the game by forcing (or encouraging me) to grab a bunch of random crap and scrap it. I would say that out of 3 hours, probably 1/4 of that is picking up random shit, inventory management, and recycling. What a boring mechanic. And before you say "you can ignore it", that's just not a good argument. If I ignore it I lose out on credits, weapon augmentations, supplies, etc.

- Melee combat is one of the worst I've ever seen. Feels extremely floaty, there's poor feedback in the attacks, the range of your weapon is not obvious, and the hits don't feel satisfying (there's no weight to them). Honestly, a basic block + counterattack system and some "oomph" would have made melee much more fun. As it stands, it's a chore.

- Ranged combat is a bit better, but it still lacks "oomph" for lack of a better term. The pistol feels like a pea shooter. Leaning and crouching should make me a smaller target, but it seems that it doesn't matter -- as long as any part of my body is exposed, it will get hit. Rather than the combat being exciting, it feels more like a "peek, shoot, repeat" loop. Some modernization in this area would have been nice, for example mechanics where you have to interrupt an enemy's attack by shooting a specific point, or some sort of mechanic that prevents you from winning every fight via the "peek, shoot, repeat" technique. In general, I feel like combat should be a bit faster and a bit more deadly. Make it feel like a fight to the death, not a pool noodle slap contest.

- A lot of the time feels wasted backtracking, e.g. when out of energy and looking for an energy station. There are teleporters in the game already, some sort of unlockable teleport-based travel system that allows you to move through a previously-explored level quickly would have been nice.

- Cyberspace looks great, but -- again -- the combat feels very bad and slow-paced. I really don't find it fun keeping M1 pressed forever while circle-strafing around every enemy. It's brain-numbing. How about a dash move and attacks that must be avoided that way? Some modernization/gamification here would have been nice as well. It also feels like everything IS SO SLOW. Projectile speed is slow. Movement speed is slow. It just feels "floaty", and I can't really explain why.

- Too many animations. Seriously, I don't want to watch the same animation every time I get an audio log. Play it ONCE, then never again. Or give me an options to disable it. Same with healing items, grenades, etc. It makes everything much more slow-paced and "artificial". This is something the original game actually did better, everything felt "snappy" and "instant". Do I really have to watch 50 coins drop ONE BY ONE at the recycler, every single time I recycle a bunch of stuff? Did nobody complain about this in beta testing?

- This is subjective, but the original's music was exciting and pumping. The remake's music feels more "professional" and "polished", but lacks the catchiness and excitement of the original's. This contributes to the slow-paced feeling.

- I understand that some enemies are better dispatched with certain weapons and ammo types. However, there's no visual/auditory feedback about it. It doesn't have to be a CoD hit-marker, but some sort of hint that the weapon/ammo you're using is ineffective would feel great. Imagine a high-pitched ricochet sound + sparks when shooting a robotic enemy with normal pistol rounds. Likewise, imagine an electrocution animation + sound when using the mag-pulse. As an example, I wasted 20 pistol rounds on one of those floating toxic enemies before realizing that it was uneffective -- intuitively I would assume that it was an organic enemy, and kinetic ammunition would have been effective. But the game gave me no visual/auditory feedback on that.

- I felt like I could cheese through any radiation/toxic area in the first three levels by using one or two medipatches, including the part where you grab the isotope. I don't remember if it was this easy in the original, but I just completely ignored radiation and toxicity. What's the point? Trading one medipatch to enter a specific area is not a fun game mechanic, IMHO.

- Grenades are another example of something that could have been modernized to feel better and more fast-paced. Rather than equipping the grenade and then using it, it would have been nice to have a dedicated hotkey to throw one without having to switch your weapon, and another hotkey to cycle through grenade types.

- I like the new puzzles.

- I was really disappointed that the item-finding radar augmentation I found did not show objects on my HUD, rather only in the radar. It would have been cool to turn it on and see a bunch of objects being highlighted on the screen.

In conclusion, I'm not really impressed. It is not a bad game by any means, but I am quite disappointed after the waiting time. Everything just feels too floaty/slow-paced and not really fun or exciting. It also doesn't feel scary or stressful, it just feels sort of plain. If it were me, I'd make combat more fast-paced and deadly, increase movement/shooting/enemy speed, remove all the padding (animations, recycling, etc), and focus on making the fundamental mechanics (combat, exploration, movement, hacking) of the game more fun, rewarding and better at providing video/audio feedback to the user.

[665aedeba1356William Diego]

"It's incredibly faithful"
t. people who have never, ever played the original and only experienced it through screenshots or their favorite small time youtube reviewer

Why are people like this?

[665aedeba1482Xkilljoy98]

I can't find Gamepig Minigames or Cyberspace Logs anywhere despite them saying that they were supposed to be in the game and them showing assets from them

[665aedeba1793sarge945]

"It's incredibly faithful"
t. people who have never, ever played the original and only experienced it through screenshots or their favorite small time youtube reviewer

Why are people like this?

Everyone seems to be in one of 2 camps

Either, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread and is the best remake of all time, or it's total garbage with no redeeming qualities and every change is bad by definition.

I'm kinda ehhhh....it's okay I guess.

[665aedeba18f7Pacmikey]

The remake is good, no (forum arguments) doubt about it. The purists of this forum (sorry to generalize yall but whatever) are hyper loyal to SS1 no matter what.

In my opinion? This is a straight upgrade over SS1 in every way possible. It's the same way I view Black Mesa vs HL1. Yes, there are certain nuances missed, but who gives af seriously. As a system shock fan I'm happy that *any* attention is being given to the series. So far SS1 Remake is everything I asked for.

[665aedeba1c96William Diego]

The remake is good, no (forum arguments) doubt about it. The purists of this forum (sorry to generalize yall but whatever) are hyper loyal to SS1 no matter what.

In my opinion? This is a straight upgrade over SS1 in every way possible. It's the same way I view Black Mesa vs HL1. Yes, there are certain nuances missed, but who gives af seriously. As a system shock fan I'm happy that *any* attention is being given to the series. So far SS1 Remake is everything I asked for.

"forum arguments"
Why would you give yourself away so easily, /v/ tourist?

[665aedeba2009Xkilljoy98]

The remake is good, no (forum arguments) doubt about it. The purists of this forum (sorry to generalize yall but whatever) are hyper loyal to SS1 no matter what.

In my opinion? This is a straight upgrade over SS1 in every way possible. It's the same way I view Black Mesa vs HL1. Yes, there are certain nuances missed, but who gives af seriously. As a system shock fan I'm happy that *any* attention is being given to the series. So far SS1 Remake is everything I asked for.

Every possible way huh?, you listen to the music in the remake?

Oh wait it doesn't have any

[665aedeba2341Pacmikey]

Why would you give yourself away so easily, /v/ tourist?

OH SHIT!

[665aedeba273eicemann]

I played through all of Medical last night, which took a bit over 4 hours.

Compared to the beta build:

* The starting apartment section is more or less the same. Press enter to continue style hacking. The silence and lack of music during that section was deafening. Very underwhelming.

* You now cannot use cyber terminals and med beds if your in a "threatened" state, which I assume means in a combat state. This is fine for the most part, BUT there is a bug in the first level that puts you in a permanent combat state until you either leave the level or die. Even saving and loading or quitting the game and going back in does not fix it.

* Quite a few changes in the Medical level. Nothing drastic, but lots of little nooks and crannies that weren't in the beta build as well as improved lighting. A few vending machines, 1 weapon upgrade machine (which only had an upgrade for 1 specific weapon that you already had a better alternative to by that point which made the upgrade pointless), and 1 Resident Evil style storage locker, which is barely useful due it's severely small amount of storage space.

* As in the beta build, you can now recycle items for cash which annoyingly takes up inventory space (poker chip style). I didn't mind the recycling as its optional and gives you an extra thing to do in the levels.

* Combat is pretty much the same as in previous builds. Very floaty in melee but ranged is fine. Magpulse has been improved.

* Cyberspace - Excellent. Night Dive knocked it out of the park in these sections. Very Descent-ish / old arcade style. Plus there is ACTUAL MUSIC during these bits. Huge improvement over the originals cyberspace. Only negative is that it resets when you die (in there) or leave unlike in the original.

* Music - There is no music outside of combat (where I didn't even notice it most times) or when in threatened state. I am not looking forward to the reactor level. To see such iconic music replaced with ambiance just sucks to the highest order.

* Voice acting / audio logs / Emails - Not seen enough of the game yet. Medical is fine. There is a few entirely new audio logs spread about Medical. Positive change there, except for 1 that spoils Diego's switch in allegiance (not uncovered until the Executive level in the original). They still have not fixed the issue of audio logs and emails being treated as the same thing in your multimedia player.

The emails have an odd bug in that they are played as an audio source in the actual physical level. So if you get an email but then turn around then the volume of the email will decrease majorly until you face the direction you were facing when you got it.

* Puzzles - These are all over the place. Some that were very difficult in earlier builds now are much easier, and others have been bumped up to "7th Guest" levels of puzzle difficulty with you having to sit there for a significant amount of time before you can solve them. Not a negative at all as I like hard puzzles, though some may hate it.

* Sensearound has been completely changed from the original. Now it apparently highlights objects nearby. I tried switching it on and off with items in my view but did not witness any highlighting, but I'm going by the item description of what it says it does.

* Info pickups - These are extremely small items that are very easy to miss and yet often contain important info. These should be made more prominant. I found 3 or 4 of these in Medical and likely missed several more.

* Game really needs a note tracking system, SS2 style of passwords for doors and objectives. Would make for a positive quality of life change.

[665aedeba285esarge945]

I hope this remake is moddable. As far as I am concerned, the base game is *mostly* fine, but inferior to the original overall. I feel with some polish and changes, it could be truly excellent.

[665aedeba29fdvoodoo47]

I'm in the yeah yeah, it's ok, now where's the SS2 source code team.

[665aedeba2cfasarge945]

I'm in the yeah yeah, it's ok, now where's the SS2 source code team.

I definitely want to see some source.

[665aedeba2e1ficemann]

My play through of the first level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWptyv2pTP8

[665aedeba3094Autz]

I can't find Gamepig Minigames or Cyberspace Logs anywhere despite them saying that they were supposed to be in the game and them showing assets from them

I remember some footage of those, specially the minigames. Or they are giving those later, or they were scrapped at the last minute.

I can imagine Atari telling them "No more delays!" and boom.

[665aedeba31b6sarge945]

ZOOMING IN WITH ANY WEAPON FUCKS YOUR FOV AND RESETS IT TO DEFAULT, THE ONLY FIX IS TO CHANGE IT IN SETTINGS.

NightDive really have no idea what they are doing, do they?

[665aedeba348bsverXRazum]

Xkilljoy98
Well, there is one GamePig in Hacker's apartment. Maybe it was scraped or maybe I'm just not so far into the game and/or didn't find any in first 2 levels.