GMDX: Deus Ex Mod.

[6649e8e95a927Join2]

At least half of the HK Military Police actually look Chinese now though.

[6649e8e95ad25voodoo47]

...unless you can do a convincing Chinese accent

nothing that wouldn't offend half the continent. tried looking for free generic barks or voice synthesizers? they could work for such a simple task.

[6649e8e95ae77Join2]

Eh, I'm not sure if the quality would be up to par, not that Deus Ex has the best voice acting but a lot of it is underrated, I think.

[6649e8e95af97voodoo47]

last time I've checked, the synthesizers were good enough for shorter SS2 logs.

//almost forgot - bottles of wine ginormous, beer a bit too large as well.

[6649e8e95b0abvoodoo47]

so yeah, the death scream of gibbed enemies has been removed, but now there is little reaction from nearby AIs - blew up a cop with a gep gun, and his partner 5 meters next to him is like "you reduced my partner to a wet stain? I guess it's ok".

[6649e8e95b1e2Join2]

Where specifically? Vanilla they rarely turned hostile from things like that because they had a "max number of provocations" var (before turning hostile) and it was often set to a wild number like 8.  Generally I've resolved this but this may be a special case in need of addressing.

In the mod I changed it based on NPC type, e.g Cops should be intolerant, UNATCO may turn a blind eye. So I may have overlooked something.

[6649e8e95b2cevoodoo47]

tested on unatco troops and cops on the first NYC mission. kill should equal turning hostile, I think.

[6649e8e95b3deJoin2]

Lots of love for GMDX in this thread, which may help sway those that are on the fence.

[6649e8e95b500voodoo47]

feels like DE mods are where we were about 2 years ago - various levels of completeness, compatibility problems, lack of user friendly mod tools, no proper development direction.

and still no bugfix/overhaul mod that would aim to stay close to vanilla, and just fix what is broken, SCP style - GMDX, while really good, is not such a mod, and would be equivalent to the enhanced fork of SCP, which may or may not exist in the future.

[6649e8e95b830Marvin]

Mod compatibility in DX is hard-coded. If you want your mod to be compatible with X other mods, you have to implement each of them manually, unless all those mods change completely different parts of the game and can serve as a drop-in replacement (i.e. none). So something like ss2bmm will never come to DX.

[6649e8e95bb37Join2]

GMDX, while really good, is not such a mod, and would be equivalent to the enhanced fork of SCP, which may or may not exist in the future.

I've considered doing a "lite" version before but I don't think it is worth the effort. I don't think it'd be more valuable than the enhanced/original version, though I of course respect the desire to remain somewhat more pure, I just don't share it. Respect and follow the original design closely and push as hard as you can within those boundaries has always been my outlook, even if it alters the identity a touch along the way. If it's for the better no harm done.

I'd like an enhanced fork of SCP. Why are gameplay systems and some other things currently out of bounds while level design and visuals are not anyway, other than the increased workload of course? Probably because without the source code it'd be extremely difficult attempting to get it right I presume. though I'm also under the impression yours and ZB's outlook is those changes would be less pure in general, no matter the approach?

[6649e8e95be36Marvin]

I'd like an enhanced fork of SCP. Why is gameplay systems and some other things currently out of bounds while level design and visuals are not anyway, other than the increased workload of course?

They're not. Just like SCP is not adding wholly new parts to SS2 levels, instead opting to fix small mistakes and inconsistencies, gameplay is not changed drastically. But it is changed - just look at the grenade launcher, Tank or (soon) Naturally Able.

[6649e8e95bf97voodoo47]

but they still are just tweaking what already exists. adding new stuff is something completely different.

anyway, I tend to release the "too enhanced" bits as minimods whenever I can, though at the time, the only one somewhat worth mentioning is the stasis field mod for the SFG - but for beta3, I'd like to expand on that a bit and also allow hacking of big bots while they are frozen, and also boosting the value of repair by allowing the player to fix destroyed turrets and big bot wrecks.

[6649e8e95c346Join2]

feels like DE mods are where we were about 2 years ago - various levels of completeness, compatibility problems, lack of user friendly mod tools, no proper development direction

I take offense to this.

How is this:

Part 1: Artificial Intelligence
Part 2: Player-Controlled Mechanics
Part 3: Simulated Systems and Effects
Part 4: Weaponry
Part 5: RPG Systems
Part 6: Level Design & Graphics
Part 7: Audio Design & UI
Part 8: Preferences & Misc

...not an absolutely considerable step up from what any DX compaign mod has done before? Or lacking in design direction, incomplete or anything else. Yes the community doesn't work together more as one with a common goal like it does here but it doesn't need to.  New Vision/HDTP/Kenties/DX10/GMDX together as one handles most of what the game needed. What user friendly mod tools? The game has WOTGreal IDE for programming, Kenties Launcher for user mod management, Mutators for minor custom scripts, and the SDK for nearly every aspect of the game save the engine being open source.

[6649e8e95c4c6Djant]

Well Deus Ex mods tend not to be compatible with each other, which is a problem mostly because of how the game loads certain things like 3D models etc. As an example, try running HDTP with Shifter or Biomod, and you will often notice issues. Also Deus Ex doesn't have a good mod manager unlike SS2, partly because of the above reason. Also why are you assuming that everyone who wants to mod Deus Ex would want New Vision, HDTP, Kentie's Launcher, the Direct X 10 render or GMDX? What if they wanted to experiment with some crazy gun mod that allowed JC to shoot bubblegum, or a mod that turned all enemies into deadly rabbits? There's a lot of variety possible in modding, and compatibility issues become prominent with stuff like that.

[6649e8e95c8d6voodoo47]

the community doesn't work together more as one with a common goal

that's what I meant, not talking about GMDX there.

[6649e8e95cccaJoin2]

As an example, try running HDTP with Shifter or Biomod, and you will often notice issues.

Same as any other game. Things that modify the same files in different ways cannot be compatible without intentionally being made so. And Shifter does have HDTP support these days.
In SS2's case, the most commonly encountered incompatible file is gamesys, in DeusEx's case, DeusEx.u.

The reason a large number of mods are incompatible is because they are all big ambitious ones modifying Deus Ex.u, rather than adding simple bubblegum guns or deadly rabbits, and haven't been made to work together...though that isn't quite accurate either because there's Deus Ex Unified, GMDX with HDTP compatability, Revision is bundled with a bunch of others etc. Shifter even has The Nameless Mod compatibility.

What if they wanted to experiment with some crazy gun mod that allowed JC to shoot bubblegum, or a mod that turned all enemies into deadly rabbits? There's a lot of variety possible in modding, and compatibility issues become prominent with stuff like that.

No they don't. With mutators, add-ons and/or packages you can add these things to any other mod, no need to replace any files.

Deus Ex is very accessible and compatible mod-wise. Considerably so.

Also why are you assuming that everyone who wants to mod Deus Ex would want New Vision, HDTP, Kentie's Launcher, the Direct X 10 render or GMDX?

I didn't say that. I said:

"New Vision/HDTP/Kenties/DX10/GMDX together as one handles most of what the game needed."

In response to voodoo regarding user friendliness, completeness, and fixing the flaws of the campaign. I'm sure you agree bubblegum gun mods are not what the campaign "needs".

[6649e8e95ce42Djant]

It's true that mods which try to replace the core files, like the gamesys in System Shock 2 or the DeusEx.u file for Deus Ex are by nature incompatible. But the problem is you often end up needing to rewrite DeusEx.u for almost any sort of mod you make for Deus Ex, be it adding silly guns or placing new gadgets. In System Shock 2 stuff like updated 3D models or altered UI doesn't need a rewrite of the gamesys. Besides while mutators do exist and do help with small additional mods like that, they weren't used much in Deus Ex modding. I mean, see how it's easier for the average user to make Rebirth and SCP work than it is for them to make HDTP work with say Hardcore DX.

[6649e8e95d024Join2]

Again, mutators and packages.

Here's one: http://www.dxalpha.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9823

Includes new weapons, meaning classes, sounds, textures and models. No DeusEx.u modification.

The only reason HDTP for example modifies DeusEx.u is because it adds new core functionality. It doesn't simply replace models, it adds things like weapon mods being visible on your gun, which requires coding of core game classes to determine when those weapon parts should be rendered. It'd be the same for any other game with a source release. Notice how on the other hand New Vision can be used with absolutely any other mod, except texture mods that modify the same files, of which there is no such other mods.

DX is more open and accessible to mod than any other LG-bred game, and I took advantage of that to the best of my ability.

[6649e8e95d125Djant]

The mod you linked is far from being in a usable state though for the average user, since it requires editing .ini files and then summoning them in game using the console. Rebirth doesn't require any such complications, neither does the UI mod to my knowledge.

[6649e8e95d258Djant]

Also I never disputed that Deus Ex is highly moddable, indeed it is, especially in comparison to Dark Engine games. The problem comes with compatibility though. As for New Vision, it's a texture pack, and texture packs tend to be compatible with other mods in general since all they affect are the textures loaded onto the geometry of the levels in game. SHTUP for SS2 works very well with all sorts of mods.

[6649e8e95d41cJoin2]

You're not listening (nor researching to ensure you're right), just arguing to the contrary.

Just because some don't, doesn't mean they cannot.
Editing the .ini file isn't necessary, and getting those weapons to appear in game without commands can be done with a simple (non DeusEx.u) custom script included within, among other alternatives.

As for New Vision, it's a texture pack, and texture packs tend to be compatible with other mods in general since all they affect are the textures loaded onto the geometry of the levels in game.

This is not relevant/accurate. Texture packs tend to be highly compatible because they often simply replace the vanilla textures.
A model pack for Deus Ex (a rebirth equivalent) can be just as accessible and compatible, if intended to do so.

Again, this is no inherent problem to Deus Ex or the unreal engine. the "problem" is most of the big mods do not do the things you stated because they do not simply replace, they add functionality too. The reason Rebirth, the UI mod, ACC 400 etc are so compatible is because they do nothing more but replace the relevant files. The same can be done for Deus Ex if the respective modders desire. In New Vision's case, they did desire that.
 

[6649e8e95d5fbDjant]

I'm aware of the difficulties with Deus Ex modding. Here's a quote straight from one of the HDTP developers:

Replacing deusex.u was almost unavoidable, really. Given that multiskin assignments don't necessarily correlate between original and HDTP, the fact that many decos contain internal code that alters textures (looking at you, alarmunit..  :evil: ) and the sheer number of decos that reskin themselves on startup, the best place to stick the modified code was..well, where it was actually used.

I suppose I could've come up with some sort of mutator, but it would've been really, really, really messy, and probably still not guaranteed to be hardcore/shifter/smoke-compatible.

http://www.offtopicproductions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19471#p19471

And adding lines to the .ini not necessary? If so why did he explicitly state that in the installation instructions?

[6649e8e95d830Join2]

Replacing deusex.u was almost unavoidable, really. Given that multiskin assignments don't necessarily correlate between original and HDTP, the fact that many decos contain internal code that alters textures (looking at you, alarmunit..  :evil: ) and the sheer number of decos that reskin themselves on startup, the best place to stick the modified code was..well, where it was actually used.

Again, all are problems associated with the nature of HDTP in that it adds code in the first place, and wasn't designed for multiskins (the addition of visual weapon mods in particular) to correlate between the original and HDTP! It's not just a model/skin replacement mod like rebirth. If it were, there'd be no such problems.

And adding lines to the .ini not necessary? If so why did he explicitly state that in the installation instructions?

EditPackage .ini edits is for editing packages (compiling them) and getting the editor to load them. Simply placing the file in System will result in it being found when referenced in-game, no .ini edit needed. Give it a try. Download the package, put it in system, don't bother adding the .ini edit, and summon one of the weapons.

Why did he explicitly state it? Probably just so that people can directly add them to levels via the editor.