Citadel - System Shock Fan Remake

[665b5a6156dafMako]

If you fool around enough you'll find that you can do it with low-ish ledges (about waist high, as Marvin says) but this doesn't seem to be a deliberate feature so much as a side effect of the collision detection system. Remember that the player's body is spherical (as far as the game knows) so it makes sense that by pushing up against a ledge, you can end up "rolling" the sphere on top of it.

[665b5a6156f3fvoodoo47]

update; http://www.indiedb.com/games/citadel/news/developer-report-102714

[665b5a61570deJoin2]

Awesome hopper.

Us modders that are stuck in the past could really use more 3D artists in the scene. 

[665b5a6157220icemann]

That looks great. Though I'll reserve judgement until it's fully playable.

[665b5a615734bvoodoo47]

usually, I'm not too fond of AI sprite->3D model conversions (tried some AI model packs for Doom, they look and feel just awkward), but I have to admit these look fine and fit the environment nicely. lets hope JJ can get them to move around in a smooth way.

still not entirely convinced that the entire task is doable in less than 60 days, but I don't really care about delays as long as he delivers at the end.

also, we are still missing a comment on how the audio/music is going to be handled.

[665b5a615742bicemann]

Be nice if you could pick whether to use the new models or not. Would go down far better with the purists.

[665b5a615750cCarrot]

If you were such a purist, wouldn't you just play the original, since it's fully functional?

[665b5a615760eicemann]

Yes but some like to have their cake and eat it too so to speak. Getting the nice looking wall textures and better controls whilst keeping the original AI sprites.

Be a bit elitist to force people into only one option if they didn't like 1 aspect out of many.

[665b5a61576feNdrake]

No one is forcing anyone into anything. Mods and fan projects are generous offers to the public. The least we can do is grant the dev his artistic vision instead of demanding for him to accommodate everyone.

[665b5a6157ac0Join2]

No one is forcing anyone into anything. Mods and fan projects are generous offers to the public. The least we can do is grant the dev his artistic vision instead of demanding for him to accommodate everyone.

Yes, but as a proclaimed "remake" of a beloved classic he will do well to consider the words of purists on occasion. Sprites vs models is definitely something worth discussing because of the engine choice, it's not purely a purist concern.

[665b5a6157e14Olfred]

Well, it is a remake, not a redo.
To be honest, if I would create a remake of SS1 I would create complete new assets for all the visuals based up on the old ones. And it would be on par with modern visuals. But still keeping the original feel and impression of the original game.
Somewhat how Black Mesa did it with Half-Life.

I would favor the 3D models over the sprites. It's not like the devs choose to do sprites because it's their artistical choice of how they want the game to look. No, it's quite the opposite. They had a technical limitation so they had to sprites instead of 3D models what they would have prefered.
In the end they created 3D models and did shots of them to be used as sprites.

So if you are a full fleshed purist, just play the original game. It's not like you aren't able to do it, you can run it on a modern system.

[665b5a6158152Ndrake]

Yes, but as a proclaimed "remake" of a beloved classic he will do well to consider the words of purists on occasion. Sprites vs models is definitely something worth discussing because of the engine choice, it's not purely a purist concern.

Sure to have an ear for the audience is good advice. With this project at this point however - asking for a sprite version is like going to a restaurant and ordering gluten-free Wiener Schnitzel. You can just eat a steak you know...

[665b5a61582c7Join2]

But that's my point, some argue that sprites are better than early 3D models because 3D models from the early 90's to the early 00's looked like ass. Since JJ is remaking the game on an engine that is pretty old (though the update coming soon looks pretty damn good) some would certainly prefer sprites and it would be agreeable. Just what is the steak in this instance?

[665b5a61583b1voodoo47]

tools will be released, so anyone will be able to hack in whatever he likes.

[665b5a6158790Ndrake]

Just what is the steak in this instance?

Ndrakes Schnitzel Metaphor:

restaurant = JosiahJack
Wiener Schnitzel = Citadel
gluten (i.e. flour, bread crums) = 3D models
steak = System Shock

tools will be released, so anyone will be able to hack in whatever he likes.

So we can peel off the fried part and don't need to bother the chef with our gluten allergy.

[665b5a6158a25JosiahJack]

You know I enjoy reading these posts as though I'm a casual observer.  Y'all are funny.

Back to reality though, I am listening for feedback, but that doesn't mean I'm going to try to compensate for everyone's opinion by any means.
No sprites for enemies!  Ever.  From me at least.  That defeats the point.  I'm the chef in this kitchen.  And I haven't received much help yet with cooking the steak (code, mapping).
Gluten?   Just take some more Vitamin C if gluten affects you.

I do hope I have time to enhance the level visuals past the pure cubism of the original without breaking any mood or nostalgia.  So perhaps there is some more meat for you to chew on.
Speaking of the deadline...I'm feeling the heat to be sure.  Wait what am I doing!?!  Not working... back to work.

-JJ out.

[665b5a6158b1aOlfred]

The only thing I might help out with is 3D modeling and animation. But no texture work, I suck at it.

[665b5a6158e36RocketMan]

That makes 2 of us.

[665b5a6158f78icemann]

For me the sprites are much of the charm.

Despite the wide spread use of it, I use the standard enemy models for SS2 rather than rebirth for example but do use the enhanced wall textures of SHTUP as it enhances the existing experience. Similary for Doom, I use the enhanced wall texture mods and not the "better" enemy model ones, as once you change the look then it's not the same anymore. Especially when people aren't given choice.

So I'll probably stick with regular SS1 then, or at the most would give it a brief try only. But the best of luck to you with this remake/redo.

[665b5a61593fbJoin2]

I use the enhanced wall texture mods and not the "better" enemy model ones, as once you change the look then it's not the same anymore. Especially when people aren't given choice.

Why not the "HD Sprites" also?

http://i.imgur.com/ckTsm.png

They're excellent. Only issue is they are not fully compatible with Brutal Doom.
And yeah, nobody in their right mind would use the models.

That makes 2 of us.

In an ideal Join us world you two would defect to help me with Deus Ex 

[665b5a61594fficemann]

Ooo. Those HD sprites do look nice. I wasn't aware of those. Was only referring to the 3D model replacements.

[665b5a6159679Ndrake]

But also if we're talking purism now we shouldn't underestimate pixelation. There's something about it that makes you expect/see something behind the pixels that can't be shown in HD. The pixelated Resident Evil 2 zombies are still one of the scariest thing I ever encountered in a video game - right next to the low-res origami Hybrids.
There's probably the same psychology behind it as in regards to the fact that no expletive sounds quite as offensive as a *bleep*.

[665b5a6159861RocketMan]

The other thing is just that old thing we keep repeating all the time, which is that Josiahjack can't please the world and maybe he doesn't want to.  Would you rather have an author with a vision or someone who just wants to make everybody happy because they have a different opinion?  We've all seen how well politicians like that turn out.  If we give him a bit of latitude over his project I'm sure he won't disappoint any of us.  It may not be "perfect" for some of us but a perfect product is logically impossible when you have an inconsistent definition of perfection to work towards.

[665b5a61599fbKolya]

Hear hear!