SSR Cyberspace

[665afcbb50d92chickenhead]

First, I'm going to pat myself on the back for beating Hiraki to starting this thread.

...

Okay, so how do you think they should/will handle cyberspace in System ReShock?  I personally am starting to think they'll just remove it entirely, based on what we've seen in terms of footage and publicity.

[665afcbb50f93Hikari]

*Fistbump*

Hey someone had to make all these topics separately so we could discuss/argue. Assuming they haven't turned all their attention to the kickstarter comments (and even if NightDive is watching here God have mercy on that poor intern,) it'll be easier to sift through later if things get spread out a touch.

[665afcbb512b6XKILLJOY98]

First, I'm going to pat myself on the back for beating Hiraki to starting this thread.

...

Okay, so how do you think they should/will handle cyberspace in System ReShock?  I personally am starting to think they'll just remove it entirely, based on what we've seen in terms of footage and publicity.

No they're not: "We are completely redesigning cyberspace", there is no reason for them to remove it, and seeing as to what they've done so far (and plan to do), I highly highly doubt it.

[665afcbb51454Hikari]

I kinda hope there's an implant that gives 'aug space' type overlays in addition to a binary 'meatspace/cyberspace' dynamic. Not a total replacement so much as information you can find if you have the right implant, the ability to leave markers for yourself or annotate objects (which would go great with being able to put things back in chests like the demo showed off.) That way you can easily see at a glance sorta what's inside that stash you made.

basically an outgrowth of the existing object annotation feature alongside an expansion of how navmarkers work in logical ways. Like say you get group-1 access, you can suddenly see notes scrawled that are listed as group-1 access.

But only if you find the right implant.

[665afcbb5157fDKDArtagnan]

I'd love for them to use it to expand upon the hacking gameplay. As in, I'd like it to be something other than linear corridors with limited control - and reward players who dedicate themselves to hacking - like they did in SS2.

The best version of cyberspace was probably Tron 2.0 - and they could do something like that.

I particularly enjoy exploration with hidden audio/data logs - and stuff like that. So, I hope they take the opportunity to flesh out the NPCs in that way.

[665afcbb51887dertseha]

As one who really liked the cyberpunk-style cyberspace of the original, I also understand it's like asking for computers to be like they were thought to be in Star Trek TOS. While we run around with a resemblance of cyberdecks in our pockets (smartphones & tablets), it still takes some time until it goes full circle and we have wandering gargoyles with a VR headset.

So I'm curious about that augmented-reality pitch - see the electrical plumbing behind walls and modify them with some hand waving ala Minority Report.

(Fun detail: It sounds like most of the fan-made projects the last decades: Delay on the realization of cyberspace - With the exception, now there is about 1 million of cash behind it )

[665afcbb519cdLearonys]

I personally loved how System Shock Infinite did it. Funny thing is, that's the only thing i liked about System Shock, I hated the fact that they forced you to carry one of each type of weapon just to be able to progress in the level, and the voice acting made me go nuts.

Here's a video, would work better than me explaining it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM4rY4flIFA

[665afcbb51b36tipharess]

I think on this first concept-art wallpaper here we get a glimpse on what the cyberspace there will look like:

Image: http://imgur.com/BVhXVZc


the first one, ''System Shock''...  seems like a vast neon-landscape with a far away horizon to me.. would be a nice contrast to the narrowness of the station

[665afcbb51c7cHikari]

I'm hoping actual cyberspace (as opposed to the aug-space idea I pitched as a between stage/outgrowth of navigation) would be less 'isolated levels' and just as interconnected as the station segments themselves because this is shodan's realm and at the same time her mindscape she exists as a solid entity within.

It should feel both familiar and at the same time threatening because where citadel had to be cajouled into a new shape, shodan can take a more... direct hand in crafting cyberspace to her personal specifications.

[665afcbb51ddficemann]

I have a feeling we're going to hate whatever they come up with, as the chances of us getting what was done in the original is next to zero. Even if it was done the same way, we'd have people saying that it's not innovative enough.

[665afcbb51f1cHikari]

Or worse, getting exactly what the original was and everyone bitching that they didn't fix the navigation problems. It's a hard spot to be in and i'm one of those people in favor of 'this needs change.'

[665afcbb52008WhyNottt]

I felt like the controls were just alright in the enchanced edition with the mouselook personaly.

[665afcbb5245aRocketMan]

I honestly don't know how one could "fix" cyberspace unless it's to simply add mouse-look.  Everything in cyberspace is supposed to look simple, colorful and iconic.  That's the design intent.  To make it look prettier would be to do what Tron Legacy did to the grid, which I hated.  They gave everything an ultra-realistic appearance with frickin' clouds and lightning and mud puddles and shit.  For meat-space (my new favourite word) that's ok but not cyberspace.  As for the disorienting acid trip, ppl get nausea from it... too bad for them.  Again that was design intent as opposed to walking around like SS2 did it.  Let's face it.  SS2 cyberspace isn't cyberspace at all.  It's a redecorated room and that doesn't belong on SS1.  True SS1 cyberspace has some key elements in it that should never change... floating/flying around, crude graphics, wireframe environments, lots of colours.  They can re-art everything and make it look better, sure.  They can tweak the controls and control sensitivity to make for an easier ride, sure.  But by and large, cyberspace is a fixed quantity as is.  Expanding the size of it might be something they could try but I wouldn't go nuts with it.

[665afcbb52814dertseha]

Everything in cyberspace is supposed to look simple, colorful and iconic.  That's the design intent.  To make it look prettier would be to do what Tron Legacy did to the grid, which I hated.

Do we know for sure that it was the "design intent", in contrast to "Based on what we know now (back in 1994), this is how we think it would look like." [and not limited by current 90s PC tech] ?
The pen-and-paper RPG Shadowrun, which is cyberpunk (with elves), introduced high-tier cyberspace a few years later, where hackers would experience a real-life environment.

Or, asked differently: Does SSR have to remake a 80s/90s impression of cyberpunk with modern tech (like Alien Isolation did with 80s impression of SciFi), or a reimagined story with the same social aspects based on projections of current real-world capabilities (like the Enterprise series did, which happen before Star Trek TOS) ?

[665afcbb529f5Synaesthesia]

And really, who's to say that cyberspace wouldn't be represented like the Holodeck in TNG - something completely immersive?

I don't think a computer system in 2072 is going to use basic wireframes and 20 polygon object representations.

[665afcbb52c51RocketMan]

It has nothing to do with the era in which we're talking.  By design intent I mean, what is cyberspace supposed to do?  What is the target audience?  How does it serve that audience?  No matter what year it is, the philosophy of cyberspace is the same:  Create a virtual representation of the real world so that users can interact with familiar, convenient objects, in order to accomplish more complex tasks that would be cumbersome or impossible in the real world... and do it all quick as fuck. 

Cyberspace is designed by humans for humans.  It should be as simple and unambiguous as possible.  A key looks like a bright yellow key, a piece of data looks like a floating diskette, to acquire, you run into it... simple.  Two dimensions limit the amount of stuff the user can access so why have gravity?  We see the world in 3D so the rooms are 3D and we can fly to make accessing different parts of a data storage medium (like a hard drive) more intuitive.  This is the lowest common denominator of interaction.  That's what cyberspace is for.  Adding lens flares to light sources and real flowing hair to the digital cortex reavers does absolutely nothing for the  user, who only cares what the scene in front of him means.  "I'm in a red room with 3 data objects, 2 security routines (enemies) and a pulsar upgrade to de-activate the security."  That's all he needs to know and that's all that need be depicted, in the simplest possible way.  Doing this at a computer terminal would require conventional hacking and is a pain in the ass compared to flying into a room, shooting some shit and bumping into a coloured block.

That's why I'm certain about its design intent.  Not because I can read minds.

[665afcbb52d65dertseha]

Heh, I wasn't questioning your mind-reading capability
Your reasoning of the design purpose of cyberspace I can get behind, I like it.

With that practicality in mind, I believe I could also use the same reasoning for an augmented reality. Though I haven't thought it fully through.

[665afcbb52f86Hikari]

I'm one of those that is in favor of augmented reality as a sort of middle ground between full cyberspace and full meatspace. I want a proper cyberspace to exist, both disconnected bits and interconnected 'this is SHODAN's domain that is citadel.'

Augspace being like if you have the proper implant you can see notes left traced along walls in neon, or files left here and there where in cyberspace you have flight-sim like controls and different stats and everything.

Basically aug-space is like 'you can get by getting the things here.' For those that find full on cyberspace too difficult/different to navigate. However if you can master proper cybgerspace you have so many things opened to you in way of logs, access permissions, software upgrades and utilities that you can't otherwise get.

A middle ground so you can still feel hacker-y and get the things needed for progression, but if you take time to actually master cyberspace and unlock your own potential, many doors open to you, many avenues of progress become available.

As for Cyberspace itself. I want to ditch the detatched unconnected spaces and have it be... well less a direct reflection of citadel (that would be boring) and more or less a logical map of where and what SHODAN finds important in citadel and how she would go about interfacing with and or monitoring the meaty world.. That said there should be a few totally disconnected spaces, such as the tutorial-like section that might not explicitly hold your hand, but is the fairly easy benign 'here let's ease you into different concepts by forcing you to get used to each before you can progress... without ever telling you.'

Also I like the idea of going into cyberspace to disable cameras, unlock doors for alternate paths (that might have fewer meatspace enemies,) find access codes.

I'm a fan of system shock infinite's use of cyberspace in conjunction with 'node' clicking. Maybe have node type clicking to decrypt/security strip implants from cyborgs before you can use them?

[665afcbb53159fox]

I would favor augmented reality over vr/cyberspace too but only in a new game, not in a remake/reboot.

[665afcbb53267Hikari]

Well That's why I want a graduated approach of the aug-space having like the basics of what you need to survive, but to get the most out of things you have to go diving into shodan's domain.

[665afcbb533d2ZylonBane]

"Cyberspace" is fundamentally nonsensical, a concept created by an author who didn't even own a computer at the time. It was conceived to make actually pretty boring data processing activities exciting and visually interesting. So any attempts to approach it logically are doomed and entirely miss the point.

I'm predicting that SSR cyberspace will end up looking and playing basically like Rez.

[665afcbb5353aJoin2]

I'm hoping it ends up playing more like Descent. Basically how it originally did just much more realised. Actual whole/half cyberspace levels for each deck, multiple ports of entry putting you in a different place in the interconnected cyberspace level. More expansive software. Proper 360 degree control that handles nicely. Boost thrusters. Exploration of cyber space rather than being sucked through random tubes.

Night Dive get on it!

[665afcbb5387fThiefsieFool]

It would be nice for cyberspace to stay roughly the same in aspect and have better gameplay, but I have a hunch we'll get something more like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6VTPurIrWw#t=2m15s

[665afcbb53bc6Join2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6VTPurIrWw#t=2m15s

God the stupid art style makes me irrationally angry.